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After reading the entry for GM Mordak and his Ghost Knights, I can honestly wonder what is the point of taking these. You spend 40pts each for what is essentially a Terminator with the Stealth USR which might not even arrive during the battle, and for some reason the unit limit is 5, despite the fact that it would only be possible to spawn 3 before they disappear (assuming I get lucky with the summon rolls). They just seem like too large a gamble to be truly effective, as you have to commit Mordak into the fight and get him wounded but not killed before they appear.

Correct me if I'm wrong, am I missing something here, something which would even make me think about taking them?

Valkyrie wrote:After reading the entry for GM Mordak and his Ghost Knights, I can honestly wonder what is the point of taking these. You spend 40pts each for what is essentially a Terminator with the Stealth USR which might not even arrive during the battle, and for some reason the unit limit is 5, despite the fact that it would only be possible to spawn 3 before they disappear (assuming I get lucky with the summon rolls). They just seem like too large a gamble to be truly effective, as you have to commit Mordak into the fight and get him wounded but not killed before they appear.

Correct me if I'm wrong, am I missing something here, something which would even make me think about taking them?

No good reason to take them, they are a fluffy unit for the most part. The only reason to consider them is the fist turn deep strike if you put the character in the unit, which is kinda pointless considering the wargear you can give them.

You're missing something. The ones that spawn from Mordrak are in addition to the ones you've purchased. The ones you've purchased form a retinue for Mordrak and are there from the beginning.

they also either deploy with everyone OR arrive automatically 1st turn via deep strike.

Stealth is also free on them.

Is its a good aproach as your oponent will have to deal with them. If the rest or your army can attack just as quick you can plant the seeds of distress very early. I would sugest one intersceptor squad and some autocannon dreadnought and work your way into one of his flanks. Look out for melta though as you will be doing those oponents a favor.

Maybe this is putting too many eggs in one basket, but you could put a Librarian with them to add some defensive powers and add some force multipliers. Where you deepstrike would be pretty important, hopefully somewhere with cover and targets that wouldn't annihilate you before you assault.

There cool sounding.

Turn one Deep Strike with no scatter, plus the potential to add an IC with a Psycannon or an Incinerator?

Expensive, yes. Potentially extremely effective? Also yes.

Keep in mind that it's also a good way to get The Grand Strategy without running into the normal problems of where you put your Terminator Armored Grand Master.

Mordrak + 3 Ghost Knights is only 320 points, and can Deep Strike into area terrain in your opponent's deployment zone on turn 1, able to immediately threaten something. Sure, they aren't as scary without a Psycannon, but Mordrak isn't an upgrade character, and thus cannot be singled out in CC, plus they'll get a 3+ cover save.

There are probably better things you can spend your points on, but there are certainly worse things.

Advantages:
1- First-turn teleport without scatter followed by a run can easily put them in position to do serious damage turn two.
2- Stealth for 3+ cover saves, particularly helpful if they will get hit first due to deep striking as above.
3- Mordrak is part of the unit, the only GK character that can't be singled out in combat.
4- You can spawn up to three free Grey Knights.

Disadvantages:
1- Max starting unit size of 5, which seriously hampers how much threat/damage they can really cause. Dropping a full terminator squad exactly where you want them behind your enemy lines would have been sweet. :(
2- If you choose to deep strike, it automatically happens first turn, which can backfire against reserve-savvy opponents.
3- No psycannons or psybolt upgrades available, limiting their shooting utility (and their ability to alpha strike when DSing).
4- Can't outflank or be made scoring by Grand Strategy.
5- If Mordrak dies, ALL OF THE GHOST KNIGHTS DISAPPEAR!

I have 7 or 8 of the old 2nd edition Grey Knights that I am considering using for Mordrak's retinue, but I don't think I'd use him in any competitive setting.

shealyr wrote:Turn one Deep Strike with no scatter, plus the potential to add an IC with a Psycannon or an Incinerator?

Expensive, yes. Potentially extremely effective? Also yes.

Keep in mind that it's also a good way to get The Grand Strategy without running into the normal problems of where you put your Terminator Armored Grand Master.

Mordrak + 3 Ghost Knights is only 320 points, and can Deep Strike into area terrain in your opponent's deployment zone on turn 1, able to immediately threaten something. Sure, they aren't as scary without a Psycannon, but Mordrak isn't an upgrade character, and thus cannot be singled out in CC, plus they'll get a 3+ cover save.

There are probably better things you can spend your points on, but there are certainly worse things.

Just because they don't scatter doesn't mean they aren't subject to dangerous terrain tests. You can't land into terrain if you don't want them to risk dying. Deep striking is deep striking when it comes to difficult/dangerous terrain.

That said, I have never run this unit but could imagine adding a librarian with "the summoning" and some offensive powers to be very effective. Turn 1, drop in behind cover and bunker up with your stealth cover save. turn 2, summon a land raider or big squad of purifiers (or other equally scary unit), have them blast the crap out of the nearest target while your ghost knights assault it. Wash, rinse, repeat.
If you can keep Mordrak and the librarian alive long enough, you could have your entire army summoned or teleporting across the board fairly quickly.

Hell, with clever wound allocation, Mordrak can keep the squad reinforced with new ghost knights as he takes wounds.

Hmmm...the problem with the librarion summong the entier army for me is the fact that they will often scatter, and if they scatter towards the librarian they will be destroyed. :-/

Could the ghosts knights be a good combination with intersceptor squads for fast backup?

Only half of Mordrak's squad has to land in cover to receive a cover bonus, so we're looking at 3 dangerous terrain tests.
Failed DT=1 wound that will be allocated to Mordrak to spawn another ghost knight.
Now they have a 3+ cover save and a librarian can start to summon units into the other side's deployment zone on the next turn.

Niiai wrote:Hmmm...the problem with the librarion summong the entier army for me is the fact that they will often scatter, and if they scatter towards the librarian they will be destroyed. :-/

Could the ghosts knights be a good combination with intersceptor squads for fast backup?

GK librarians can buy a teleport homer, problem solved.

Exept the telport homer spesifies a number of squads and only if they come in from reserves. I do not think it will work, but it would make more sence if it we could do it like that.

Homers don't work on summoning

Mystics do, but then there is no way to take Mordrak.

omerakk wrote:Homers don't work on summoning

Why? It strikes me that this was their intent, and that rules as written allow for it. Since this is a strategy I have been thinking about, would you please explain to me why it does not work? Thank you.

Teleport Homers are very specific on how they work. They not only mention which units they affect, but exactly how the unit has to come onto the field for them to affect it. They only work when units are teleporting, which is to say arriving via deep strike from reserves. I'm not sure if that's explicitly defined somewhere, I'll double check. That's the consensus on homers, even in the last Codex.

If you want them to not scatter, Mysics should do the trick, though. They say that anying arriving on the field via deepstrike within 6" doesn't scatter. Since summoning removes the models from the table and then deepstrikes them, I think it's safe to say they're 'arriving'. I haven't heard any dissent on that point yet, but there's always the possibility.

teliport homers only work on models that are teliporting in.

basically, Terminators using the Terminator suits to Deep Strike, Interceptor squads, and Dreadknights with personal teliporters.

Well, you can get a librarian into a chimera so that's good. But that is off topic unfortunatly. :-(

hi, how are you doing? I think they are quite pointless also.

On more thought yea umm teleport homers won't work.

Not sure how to make that character work. He would fit in well with a really heavy and very aggressive shunt list, but 2 problems remain. A regular GM might fit in better because he would give units a scout move, and the entire battle plan behind the hyper aggressive shunt list has no real room for error or bad luck.

You would not neceseraly need a shunt list.

Have some troops you can give scout to in dawn of war (terminators). In other sett ups use grand strategy to give a unit of purefiers scout, they convert that to the transport, now move 12 ahead and deploy out of it, first turn you will have an exelent 36" range out of your deployment sone.

(I do not know, but perhaps regular strike squads are better, you get less cannon shots but you pay less for them. A unit like that is bound to get a lott of atension.

withershadow wrote:
3- Mordrak is part of the unit, the only GK character that can't be singled out in combat.

Thawn?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

withershadow wrote:
3- Mordrak is part of the unit, the only GK character that can't be singled out in combat.

Thawn?

I think most people forget about him. Nobody I know has even considered him.