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Hi all.

I have had a number of 40k armies and none have really stuck with me. I tend to jump
from one to another looking for a game play style that will fit.

I have finally settled on Dark Eldar due to my love of the models and the fluff. Which to me seems like a good reason to play an army.

I am looking for a good 1k list that I can build on to around 1,500 points. I also have a few questions which I will post at the end of my list. It someone knowledgeable on DE could take the time to answer these I would really appreciate it. Otherwise I will continue search the net for answers.

So the list

--------------------------------------------

HQ

Haemonculus


TROOPS

10x Kabalite Warriors
+ Blaster
+ Splinter Cannon

Raider
+ Flickerfield
+ Splinter Racks



10x Kabalite Warriors
+ Blaster
+ Splinter Cannon

Raider
+ Flickerfield
+ Splinter Racks



9x Wyches
+ 3x Razorflails
+ Haywire Grenades

Raider
+ Flickerfield



HEAVY SUPPORT

Ravager
+ Flickerfield


Ravager
+ Flickerfield




878 total


--------------------------------------------


So I have over 100 points left, but i really have no idea where to go from here.

The army has decent anti-tank as I have 9 Dark Lances in there. The Haemonculus goes with the Wyches and gives them his Pain token when they leave the raider. That gives the Wyches a 4++ save and FNP in CC.

The warriors have enough firepower to shred infantry after I have popped the transports with the lances. At least thats the idea.

But what now?

The main questions I have are as follows.

1. Are Wyches decent CC troops? They just dont seem that strong to me. Am I using them wrong? Am I missing something obvious?

2. I see a lot of list use Beastmasters. I have no idea the power of these units so any help you can provide would be great.

3. I love the look of the Helions. But am I right in thinking that I would need a large unit for them to be of any use at all? That would be a large investment in points that i dont see happening in a 1k list.

4. Do Reavers suck?


Any threads regarding Dark Eldar unit summaries would be really helpful if someone knows any.

Apart from that please comment on my list even though it is incomplete.All CC is more than welcome.

Thanks guys.

DD.

Welcome to DE.
Wyches can take one weapon every 5 models, not 3 as in Bloodbrides, so you can only have 1 razorflail in that unit of 9.
Wyches aren't very strong, but it's a combination of holding units down with invuln saves and using Agonizers to take out bigger stuff. You definitely want an agonizer sybarite in that unit.
Splinter Racks are meh, but if you're just starting they're fine. At higher points you might want to drop them.
Ravagers also make good use of Night Fields.
Beastmasters only are really good with the use of a Webway portal to get them to the front faster, otherwise they have little synergy with the fast parts of the army.
Hellions are generally most effective in units of 10 with an Agonizer, to give them some power.
Reavers are fine. Money-wise, they're ludicrous for their points but they're pretty good. Just don't rely on them with heat lances to kill tanks, they only have a 5+ save.

First for your army. 9 Dark Lances isn;t enough AT at this point level. Get a 3rd Ravager with the points. Every DE list should start with 3 Dark Lance Ravagers.

Spliterracks aren't as great an investement as they first seem. Personaaly i'd consider stremlining the warrior squads. 5 Warriors 1 blaster in either a Raider or Duel splintercannon Venom. More efficent that way.

As stated the Wyches can only take 1 weapon per 5 so only 1 in that squad of 9 not 3.

As for your questions

1. They are more of a tarpit than a real hity unit. Great at tying up Terminators and mass power weapon units. Against verything else Wracks are vastely superior especially when combined with a Haemonculi. Same points better survivability and more hitting power. Take a Liquifier on the unit and another on the Haemonculi, you now have 2 template weapons each with a 50% chance of going straight through power armour and when you charge you wound on a 4+ with re-rolls rather than a 5+... With the right combat drugs result Wyches become more attractive (+1S or +1 attack both really help) in either case you need a unit champion (Hekatrix or Acothyst) with an agonizer to ensure you cut throug that guy that gets lucky with his save throws.

2. They are excellent but generally a points sink. Should be used in WWP lists not really in any other list except a Hellion spam list.

3. Yes they generally work best in larger numbers and in WWP lists. They hit very hard for their points but are fragile so you need a way of getting them there (so either by having lots of bodies or a WWP to deliver them into the heart of the enemy).

4. Yes and no. They are a pester and contest unit. If they ever don't turbo boost they are dead due to 5+ save. If they ever get in flamer range they are dead (due to 5+ save). If you try to pop a tank with them you'll need about 300 points worth to do it reliably and that unit is then dead (so it really isn't worth the effort). But keep them turboboosting and using bladevanes and Caltrops and then contest objectives late game and they can be a real pain in your opponents a***.

Ravagers also make good use of Night Fields.

This is poor advice Ravagers make no use of Night Fields. their weapons are 36" range most enemy AT weapons are 48", cutting that down to 42" means you still need to be in range to fire at them. Nightfields work better on close up vehicles to mess with melta and rapidfire weapons.

Thank you both for the advice. I have taken all your points into consideration and changed the list to fit.

EDIT: I have now added 2 lists to this post. Please check them over and let me know which one you prefer and why. Many, many thanks in advance.

LIST 1

HQ
Haemonculus
+ Liguifier Gun

TROOPS
10 warriors
+ Blaster
+ Splinter Cannon
+ Raider with flicker field

10 warriors
+ Blaster
+ Splinter Cannon
+ Raider with flicker field

9 Wyches
+ 1 Razorflail
+ Hekatrix
+ Agonizer
+ Blast Pistol
+ Grenade Launcher
+ Raider with flicker field

3x Ravagers with flicker field

1000 points exactly.

------------------------

LIST 2

HQ
Haemonculus
+ Liguifier Gun


TROOPS

5 warriors
+ Blaster
+ Raider with flicker field

5 warriors
+ Blaster
+ Raider with flicker field

5 warriors
+ Blaster
+ Raider with flicker field

9 Wyches
+ Hekatrix
+ Agonizer
+ Grenade Launcher
+ Blast Pistol
+ Raider

3x Ravagers with flicker field

100 points exactly.

--------------------------------------------------

Please CC and let me know what you think. I will be buying the models for this list in one purchase and don't want to buy it all then end up changing it.

One question I have. Are 3 Ravagers really needed?

Thanks.

DD

New list added above. Please comment and help me out.

Thanks.

DD

I like list one but I wouldn't take the Blast Pistol or Grenade Launcher. Wyches already have assault grenades so you could use those points for Haywire Grenades instead. Blast pistol are rarely useful for me and too expensive IMO.

Daemon_Dave wrote:Hi all.

The warriors have enough firepower to shred infantry after I have popped the transports with the lances. At least thats the idea.

But what now?

The main questions I have are as follows.

1. Are Wyches decent CC troops? They just dont seem that strong to me. Am I using them wrong? Am I missing something obvious?

2. I see a lot of list use Beastmasters. I have no idea the power of these units so any help you can provide would be great.

3. I love the look of the Helions. But am I right in thinking that I would need a large unit for them to be of any use at all? That would be a large investment in points that i dont see happening in a 1k list.

4. Do Reavers suck?

DD.

1. Wyches are not all that strong, for the points though they will stick around in CC. Personally, I am a believer in poison and power weapons so it is incubi with a boat load of kalabites for me.

2. I like the potential of the unit particularly with a WWP but the $$ keeps me away.

3. Hellions look cool but they are not going to do much unless taken in numbers and again that reduces you number of dark light weapons.

4. Reavers do not suck, reavers are game changers. Unit of 6, 2 w caltrops, 2 w heat lances and a leader with a poison blade. They make any opponent unlikely to step out of his vehicle.
36" charge range, 3+ invulnerable and a good chance at an early pain token. 4 d3 S4 and 2d6 S6 attacks means they will slaughter an opponent even terminators and MCs. Because they attack in the movement phase, they set up other units for pain tokens.

I think you have a good start for your army, personally I would skip the wyches for kalabites until you decide to expand your army to 1850 or so. I think you will be better served by kalabites, raiders and ravagers for awhile.

Just for an idea, I have and 1850 list

2 x ravagers
4 x raiders w 10 kalabites with splinter cannon
3 x 6 reavers
1 x Archon
1 x raider w as many incubi as I can afford.

This list is 5 and 1 in battle with the only defeat coming to slaaneshi daemons- still haven't figured out how to deal with speed and invuln saves. (razor wing??)
I am patiently awaiting some venom models as I think these are definitely worthwhile and at least one fighter for anti-hoard control otherwise this army works. 11 dark lance shots seems light to some people but I am finding it to be quite adequate. The power of poison weapons is immense, when you figure you can pile out of a raider and pump 22 shots into an opponent and not sweat the toughness of the target. (Makes you pity the Necron who fields the Nightbringer.)

11 dark lance shots do not make for killing as much as toying with your prey. They may not kill but they will make it so that the target will not be firing back often enough. Two ravagers has pretty much guaranteed that any land raider is dead early.

They key with reavers is not to fall into the trap of ever firing them at least until the enemy firepower is heavily reduced or you at least have a pain token. 5+ armor and T4 means slow moving bikes are dead bikes. 3+ invulnerable for turbo boosting make them good and activates the bladevane attacks. My secret is 3 bike squads means I can kill anything just about anywhere on the board that the enemy brings out of a vehicle. Yesterday they did their best - dropped 10-man sternguard squad, killed 5 of a 10-man termie squad and 5 of a 10-man tac squad in two turns. That allowed my anti-tank fire to concentrate on the opponent's vehicles.

Daemon_Dave wrote:EDIT: I have now added 2 lists to this post. Please check them over and let me know which one you prefer and why. Many, many thanks in advance.

Gotcha.
I prefer list 2 because it's a little bit closer to what DE are actually about doing. That said I do have a few suggestions for it I'll include below.

HQ
Haemonculus
+ Liguifier Gun

TROOPS

5 warriors
+ Blaster
+ Raider with flicker field

9 Wyches
+ Hekatrix
+ Agonizer
+ Grenade Launcher
+ Blast Pistol
+ Raider

Wasted points are - grenade launcher and blast pistol. They don't need the former, and you probably won't be having them shoot as opposed to fleet so they don't particularly use the latter.

3x Ravagers with flicker field

Biggest issue with the list is once that Haemy hops onboard the Wych Raider you will have 6 units that cost around 100 points each, and one unit that costs around 300 points and is also your only h2h assault unit. Gee, I wonder what they might shoot at first? And look, that is the one vehicle you have without a flickerfield - hope you go first. It's a bit too many eggs in one basket in my opinion.

One question I have. Are 3 Ravagers really needed?

Point for point, Ravagers are the cheapest way to get dark lances into your army.
Dark lances are our best (only) way to deal with mech at long range.
That is the beginning and the end of why Ravagers are "needed". If your list has a strategy where this isn't needed than you don't "need" Ravagers.
I have yet to see a list that couldn't benefit from a Ravager in a heavy slot.

List two is better, albeit I would think about losing the wyches. One unit will just not do much - count on mobility to save your troops and forego any HTH. My concern is you are lacking in anti-troop killing but that can easily be solved with either trueborn instead of the wyches make it a 5-man with blasters or perhaps even two more kalabite squads with a raider. Not enough poison IMO but blasters mean you can take out your opponent with brute strength. See if you can get two raiders with 5-man kalabite squads out there that would be 4 more dark light weapons. Otherwise a true borne squad with splinter carbines and cannons with the haemonculi could shoot the crap out of any hoard and be almost as effective in HTH considering you would be loosening up the target with a bunch of poison firepower.

@DAaddict - I'm pretty sure his anti-troop is the Wyches. Though, yes, going pure shooty at 1000 is pretty functional. Frankly though, if he wants Warriors with Blasters putting them in Venoms with s.cannon upgrades will give him a better anti troop option than leaving them in a Raider.

Thor665 wrote:@DAaddict - I'm pretty sure his anti-troop is the Wyches. Though, yes, going pure shooty at 1000 is pretty functional. Frankly though, if he wants Warriors with Blasters putting them in Venoms with s.cannon upgrades will give him a better anti troop option than leaving them in a Raider.

My point is one unit of wyches is not going to do anything decisive in HTH and I would rather take another raider with some shooty stuff in it say 4 trueborn with splinter carbines and 2 with splinter cannons in a raider and play stand off rather than cross my fingers that some S3 wyches are going to manage to do anything.
Agreed a venom or two would serve him better than a raider with true born, the only problem is there is currently no venom model. If you like to do conversions, go for it.

The Venom model is the Vyper, don't'cha know
Other than that I think we maybe just have a different concept of what the Wyches will need to be dealing with.

Hi guys,

First off, thanks for the help so far. It really is making me think a lot about the list and what I want each unit to do. One thing I am noticing is that I really don't have that many troops. I hope this doesn't end up hurting me in the long run.

From your comments it seems like list 2 is superior to list 1, but the wyches dont really fit in the list. Too many points invested in one paper think raider. So I have went another route and decided to play a stand off game with list number 3. As suggested I am using Trueborn with some anti-infantry weapons. I have also taken away one Ravager and added in another raider. Please tell me if this is a bad idea. I know it means I am only running 2 Ravagers and I am worried that I am breaking the golden rule of DE lists by not having 3.

So here is the list.

HQ

Haemonculus
+ Liguifier Gun

TROOPS

5 warriors
+ Blaster
+ Raider with flicker field

5 warriors
+ Blaster
+ Raider with flicker field

5 warriors
+ Blaster
+ Raider with flicker field

5 warriors
+ Blaster
+ Raider with flicker field

4 Trueborn warriors
+ Splinter Cannon
+ Splinter Cannon
+ Shardcarbine
+ Shardcarbine
+ Raider with flicker field

HEAVY SUPPORT

2x Ravagers with Flickerfields

This comes to 943 points. What do you guys think? Any suggestions for the remaining points. Is losing a Ravager a terrible idea? Should I put the third Ravager back in and lose a 5man Kabalite raider?

As always, thanks a lot for helping me out. I will be buying the models this week (assuming I can get this list down, haha).

Cheers

DD

I'm losing clear understanding of what sort of list you want to play. In the final analysis there are a couple of different ways to make a DE list ranging from very shooty to very assaulty and assorted shades inbetween. I'd advise you to come up with a core concept of what you want to play and clarify that - then this thread could focus on getting you the advice you need.

To your current list, my big issue is simply that there are smarter and more cost effective ways of accomplishing what you're doing with that Trueborn squad.

To your current list, my big issue is simply that there are smarter and more cost effective ways of accomplishing what you're doing with that Trueborn squad.

QFT 4 trueborn with blasters in a duel splinter Venom would have almost as many poision shots and quadruple the DL shots and be the same points roughly. It really is a nobrain choice between the 2 configs.

Last list looks like your going down the shooty route. As thor has stated confirm this is what you want and we can give you advice on how to build it.

Ok guys. Looks like my original idea for the list has been diluted down and I have confused you both. My apologies. The latest version of the list assumed that the Wyches had to go due to being "to many eggs in one fragile basket". Because of this I added another unit of warriors and a trueborn unit. I see now that losing a Ravager not putting the trueborn in a venom did contradict the "shooty" value of the list.

So as you suggested, lets go back to basics.

My original idea for the army list was to have a very mobile, mech heavy, shooty list. I wanted a unit of Wyches though in order to deal with any really nasty elite units that I couldnt torrent down. Or possibly deathstars.

That's about it. That was my whole idea. I know, it's not exactly a revelation.

I would be very happy just going all shooty if you guys think that it would make a more competitive list. One more thing I should add is that my gaming group is very good. The 1k lists floating about are nasty. We all play to have fun but facing a nasty list and winning is fun to all of us and we are all very good, old friends.

So in conclusion. In my head DE are a raider/venom heavy army. Dashing about and blasting stuff up. That is how I would like to play assuming that a 1k list in that vein can be competitive. Everyone posting in this thread has much more experience playing DE than I do and I will take what you say on board and built a list around it. I would rather not use any Venoms due to the lack of model. I know some people use Vypers, but I am not the best modeller and would need a guide on how to convert a Vyper to a Venom before I was comfortable spending the cash on a kit, just to cut it all up.

Also, If anyone has a good 1k list they can show me, I would also very much appreciate that.

I hope this helps guys. I really appreciate you taking the time to post and help me out.

DD

Daemon_Dave wrote:
My original idea for the army list was to have a very mobile, mech heavy, shooty list. I wanted a unit of Wyches though in order to deal with any really nasty elite units that I couldnt torrent down. Or possibly deathstars.

That's about it. That was my whole idea. I know, it's not exactly a revelation.

It may not be profound or a breathtaking concept, but simple is usually best. What you describe is pretty much how I play. My favorite 1k list is below. It isn't too far from where you were going with your original idea.

HQ

Haemonculus
+ shatter shard - 65

TROOPS

5 warriors
+ Blaster
+ Venom w/ extra spl. cannon - 130

5 warriors
+ Blaster
+ Venom w/ extra spl. cannon - 130

5 warriors
+ Blaster
+ Venom w/ extra spl. cannon - 130

9 wyches w/ haywire nades
+ Raider with flicker field - 178


HEAVY SUPPORT

3x Ravagers with Flickerfields - 345

978 total. The extra points you can put into little upgrades, like maybe razorflails on the wyches etc. You could drop a wych, and upgrade 1 to a hekatrix w/ agoniser for more cc punch if you wish. I use the wyches in 1 of 2 ways. Either they flat-out to eat vehicles, or use them as a counter charge if I'm better off sitting back and shooting depending on who I'm playing.

I haven't done any significant modeling for the venoms (awaiting model release in June-ish...maybe). I've simply been proxying the old raiders as venoms and using the new raiders as raiders. They look different enough that they're easy to distinquish one from the other.

For an all shooty list I would either forgo Wyches - or I would use small squads of Wyches with no upgrades besides maybe Haywires whose sole purpose is to lock up enemy units that are coming in too fast.

Thor665 wrote:For an all shooty list I would either forgo Wyches - or I would use small squads of Wyches with no upgrades besides maybe Haywires whose sole purpose is to lock up enemy units that are coming in too fast.

I understand why you would do this. But here is my problem. I have a Hemo HQ. He needs to go somewhere. In a transport. Without doubt he is best in a transport of Wyches to give them FNP before they charge into CC with something nasty.

I have been making list after list trying to work out the best and most effective 1k "all comers" list. I now have 2 more lists. Like I said I need at least one 9 man raider squad to put the HQ into. I also should point out that I like to have symmetry in my lists as much as I can.

List 1
HQ
Haemonculous
+ Liquidiser Gun
60

TROOPS
9 Wyches
+ Hecatrix
+ Agoniser
Raider+ Flickerfield
190

10 Kabalites
+ Blaster
+ Cannon
Raider+ Flickerfield
185

5 Kabalites
Venom + Cannon
110

5 Kabalites
Venom + Cannon
110

HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager +FF
Ravager +FF
Ravager +FF

1000 total

----------------------------------

List2
HQ
Haemonculous
+ Liquidiser Gun
60

TROOPS
9 Kabalites
+ Blaster
+ Cannon
Raider+ Flickerfield
176

10 Kabalites
+ Blaster
+ Cannon
Raider+ Flickerfield
185

5 Kabalites
Venom + Cannon
110

5 Kabalites
Venom + Cannon
110

HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager +FF
Ravager +FF
Ravager +FF

986 total

-----------------------------------------------------

As always CC is welcome. I feel that these list may be better than my others due to the mixed anti infantry and anti mech weaponry. I will have to wait until the Venom model gets released though but I am willing to do that if it will mean I have a better overall list.

Thanks all

DD.