2k point IG list

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**Greyfox231**

This is my first post on Dakka Dakka, and this army is also the first ever I'm building. It's usually going to be played for fun but I would like to have a bit of advice to make it more competitive.

HQ

CCS with Regimental standard, Heavy Flamer, Vox-caster w/Laspistol, Medi-pack w/Laspistol, plasma pistol 125pts

Chimera with heavy flamers instead of the multilaser and heavy bolter and dedicated to CCS 55pts

Techpriest enginseer with five servitors 120pts

Troop choices

Veteren Squad with power weapon, plasma pistol, vox caster, melta gun, and grenadiers doctrine 135pts

Chimera dedicated to Vet squad, with Multilaser and heavy bolter replaced with Heavy Flamers 55pts

Veteren squad with power weapon, plasma pistol, vox caster, three flamers, grenadiers doctrine 140pts

Chimera dedicated to Vet squad with same as the other two chimera upgrades 55pts

Fast Attack

Valkyrie with missile pods, and heavy bolter side guns 150pts

Hellhoud with heavy bolter replaced with heavy flamer 130pts

Armoured Sentinel with heavy flamer 60pts

Scout Sentinel squad of three, one with missile launcher, two with Lascannons 145pts

Heavy Support

LRBT with Lascannon 165pts

LRBT with heavy flamer 150pts

Leman Russ Vanquisher with heavy flamer 155pts

Leman Russ Punisher with heavy flamer 180pts

Leman Russ Punisher with heavy flamer 180pts

**Greyfox231**

No critic from anyone?

**Commisar Von Humps**

Take away the punishers, replace them with one demolisher/reg russ and a platoon of guardsmen, give the armored sentinel a plasma cannon or autocannon. Trash the chimera on the melta vet squad, add 2 extra meltas to said squad, maybe replace grenadiers with demolitions(i prefer grenadiers, gives them some extra protection) and then mount them up in the Valkyrie.

Remove the scout sentinels for more more troops. The techpreist is meh and i would consider dropping at least 2 servitors if you're going to take him for the vanquisher.

**Greyfox231**

Commisar Von Humps wrote:Take away the punishers, replace them with one demolisher/reg russ and a platoon of guardsmen, give the armored sentinel a plasma cannon or autocannon. Trash the chimera on the melta vet squad, add 2 extra meltas to said squad, maybe replace grenadiers with demolitions(i prefer grenadiers, gives them some extra protection) and then mount them up in the Valkyrie.

Remove the scout sentinels for more more troops. The techpreist is meh and i would consider dropping at least 2 servitors if you're going to take him for the vanquisher.

Very interesting, thank you for the feedback.

**daedalus**

I'll bite. Welcome to Dakka, by the way. Comments are inline. Don't take anything too harshly.

HQ

CCS with Regimental standard, Heavy Flamer, Vox-caster w/Laspistol, Medi-pack w/Laspistol, plasma pistol 125pts

Chimera with heavy flamers instead of the multilaser and heavy bolter and dedicated to CCS 55pts

You're wasting BS4. If you're going to go with mech-guard, you need as many guns as possible. Voxcasters are nigh useless in this army, because you only have two squads that can benefit and you can't issue orders to units in vehicles. Heavy flamer is insanely expensive for infantry and outclassed by all the free heavy flamers you'll get on chimeras, which, long as I'm on the topic, shouldn't be the only things you take on your chimera. You're depending on chimeras for your long range firepower in such a list; you don't want to give up your only source for it. I'd say take ML or HB along with a hull heavy flamer. Also, the medi-pack is helping to protect a unit that's not doing anything. Drop it, the vox, and the flamer for melta or plasma. Standard in mech-vets is a subject of debate at the moment. I'd drop it myself, but that's me. If you take plasma, I find either a medi-pack or carapace armor are acceptable, but never both.

Techpriest enginseer with five servitors 120pts

Has this ever gotten close enough to more than one vehicle to have ever done any good? You're paying almost another vetsquad+chimera for it and you need more troops at 2000 points.

Troop choices

Veteren Squad with power weapon, plasma pistol, vox caster, melta gun, and grenadiers doctrine 135pts
Chimera dedicated to Vet squad, with Multilaser and heavy bolter replaced with Heavy Flamers 55pts

I assume this is one meltagun? You should make it three. One meltagun misses, and the second rolls snakeeyes. Also, plasma pistol is iffy. Drop the vox, and I'd consider dropping the power weapon also. Meltavets are scary, so they are frequently shot up the moment they get blown out of their ride. Grenadiers is also probably a point sink for a squad not carrying plasma, and even then it's debatable.

As far as the chimera goes, see my comments about the CCS.

Veteren squad with power weapon, plasma pistol, vox caster, three flamers, grenadiers doctrine 140pts

Chimera dedicated to Vet squad with same as the other two chimera upgrades 55pts

See my above about your other vets. Flamers is a waste of BS 4 when you have heavy flamers on your vehicles AND a hellhound. I'd trade in for melta or plasma again and drop the previously mentioned upgrades. You also need at least 4 vet squads for a competitive or semi-competitive 2000 point list. I could kill your troops remarkably easy in this case and then you would only be able to tie at best for 2/3 of the mission types.

Fast Attack

Valkyrie with missile pods, and heavy bolter side guns 150pts

Okay, this is good. Decent amount of anti-horde firepower, and you get to fire all weapons moving at 6 inches. I like it.

Hellhoud with heavy bolter replaced with heavy flamer 130pts

If you're close enough with a hellhound to use a heavy flamer, you've done something wrong. Give it a heavy bolter instead. You can move 6", and fire both weapons at decent range.

Armoured Sentinel with heavy flamer 60pts

Armoured sentinels really aren't that great. You're paying 60 for one more of a weapon when you can get one and a good gun on a tank for 55 with another vet squad.

Scout Sentinel squad of three, one with missile launcher, two with Lascannons 145pts

This makes 4 Fast Attack, which is invalid. I think I could actually go for this though, but I would standardize the weapons. Either three lascannons or three missile launchers. Even then, outflank them onto the board and go for a suckerpunch. Don't ever start them on, or they won't get to fire.

Heavy Support

LRBT with Lascannon 165pts

LRBT with heavy flamer 150pts

Leman Russ Vanquisher with heavy flamer 155pts

Leman Russ Punisher with heavy flamer 180pts

Leman Russ Punisher with heavy flamer 180pts

**I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly**

The big problem with this list is in the HS section. It is perfectly good to take 3 leman russes. But the only good leman russ variants are the standard, demolisher, and executioner options. Punishers are terrible - do the math, and you'll see that those 20 shots will kill a few models a turn, given cover/armour saves. Vanquishers are terrible because you are paying for 1 BS3 shot, that even if it hits and penetrates is not AP1, so is less likely to take out a target than, say, a meltagun.

You also have 4 FA choices - armoured sentinels are worse than scout sentinels, which are best used for outflanking. Given that armoured sentinels lose this ability, they are overpriced compared to other vehicles with similar armour and weapons.

Basically, cut out some of the HS and FA options. You should have 3 of each maximum, because combining vehicles in squadrons is a huge loss of power compared to seperate vehicles - look up the phrase 'diminishing returns'.

Use the points on more troops choices. 2/3 of standard missions are on objectives, you want 5 mechanised squads at this points level, 6 wouldn't be a bad idea. A squad of veterans in a chimera is as good or better than even the HS and FA choices, you are not giving up anything by taking lots of troops. All veterans should have 3 meltas or 3 plasmas, all CCS should have 4. Any other weapons or options are "ok but it is better to just take more units" to "bad use of points". For example, grenadiers and medipacks are overpriced, you should just rely on your chimera for protection, you should be in a postion to get cover saves if it is destroyed. Heavy flamers on infantry are overpriced, voxes and standards benefit infantry armies but not really armies composed of seperate mechanised squads.

All chimeras should have a ML and HF. 2 HFs is useless because you cannot fire 2 weapons on the move - so unless your opponent lines up in front of the tank, you will never fire both together. ML/HF allows you to pepper your opponent while moving 6", and you still have the awesome HF option when it is the right time to use it.

Techpriests are worthless. Essentially, you pay so much for the chance to repair a tank, but you have to move to the injured vehicle, you need to roll, your techpriest can be killed without doing anything, your tanks may be destroyed without being damaged first, (you are more likely to be shaken/stunned or wrecked than damaged) etc. Just save the points for more fighting units.

All that is sort of widely accepted competitive IG advice. Sadly, a lot of the options for mech guard are out of balance, so a lot of the meanest armies look very similar. It doesn't have to be followed to the letter because mech IG are a strong army even if not tuned up to the maximum. But seriously, cut down to 3 LRBT of the good basic types (vanilla or demolisher) and get more troops with less upgrades and the same special weapons in each squad, and take ML/HF chimeras. You will do a lot better.

**Greyfox231**

daedalus wrote:I'll bite. Welcome to Dakka, by the way. Comments are inline. Don't take anything too harshly.

You're wasting BS4. If you're going to go with mech-guard, you need as many guns as possible. Voxcasters are nigh useless in this army, because you only have two squads that can benefit and you can't issue orders to units in vehicles. Heavy flamer is insanely expensive for infantry and outclassed by all the free heavy flamers you'll get on chimeras, which, long as I'm on the topic, shouldn't be the only things you take on your chimera. You're depending on chimeras for your long range firepower in such a list; you don't want to give up your only source for it. I'd say take ML or HB along with a hull heavy flamer. Also, the medi-pack is helping to protect a unit that's not doing anything. Drop it, the vox, and the flamer for melta or plasma. Standard in mech-vets is a subject of debate at the moment. I'd drop it myself, but that's me. If you take plasma, I find either a medi-pack or carapace armor are acceptable, but never both.

Has this ever gotten close enough to more than one vehicle to have ever done any good? You're paying almost another vetsquad+chimera for it and you need more troops at 2000 points.

I assume this is one meltagun? You should make it three. One meltagun misses, and the second rolls snakeeyes. Also, plasma pistol is iffy. Drop the vox, and I'd consider dropping the power weapon also. Meltavets are scary, so they are frequently shot up the moment they get blown out of their ride. Grenadiers is also probably a point sink for a squad not carrying plasma, and even then it's debatable.

As far as the chimera goes, see my comments about the CCS.

See my above about your other vets. Flamers is a waste of BS 4 when you have heavy flamers on your vehicles AND a hellhound. I'd trade in for melta or plasma again and drop the previously mentioned upgrades. You also need at least 4 vet squads for a competitive or semi-competitive 2000 point list. I could kill your troops remarkably easy in this case and then you would only be able to tie at best for 2/3 of the mission types.

Okay, this is good. Decent amount of anti-horde firepower, and you get to fire all weapons moving at 6 inches. I like it.

If you're close enough with a hellhound to use a heavy flamer, you've done something wrong. Give it a heavy bolter instead. You can move 6", and fire both weapons at decent range.

Armoured sentinels really aren't that great. You're paying 60 for one more of a weapon when you can get one and a good gun on a tank for 55 with another vet squad.

This makes 4 Fast Attack, which is invalid. I think I could actually go for this though, but I would standardize the weapons. Either three lascannons or three missile launchers. Even then, outflank them onto the board and go for a suckerpunch. Don't ever start them on, or they won't get to fire.

How are you squadroning these? I'll be honest, they're all pretty subpar choices with the exception of the LRBT with flamer. You can cause more damage than a Punisher with equal points infantry, the Vanquisher is unreliable without Pask, and expensive and unreliable with him, and then the first LRBT shouldn't have a lascannon, because it's worried about infantry and is only BS 3. If you insist upon a Vanquisher (and Pask), put the lascannon there. At least then it's BS4 and all of your pointsink is consolidated into one unit. As far as the Punishers go, I'd recommend changing them out to Demolishers. Heavy flamers on these are acceptable, though I wouldn't put one on the Vanq.

Don't read too much into this question, but do you play against anything other than Orks?

The tanks were going to have the Vanquisher and the two LRBT in a squad with the two Punishers in another.

There is at least one Ork player that plays that has 2K points worth of orks, the other 4 are just starting. I also playing against most of the other armies, mainly BA, Tau, Necrons, Eldar, DE with possibilities of 'nids in the future. As of right now all I have built is the Valkyrie, CCS, the two vet squads, and one LRBT

**bloodyclutch**

vanquisher and LRBT should not be in the same squad because they should have different targets.
on top of that, vanquisher shouldn't be taken at all because its not reliable.

Try to avoid squadroning your tanks, it makes them more vulnerable. Go with three russes, normal, Demolisher and executioner being the only real competitive ones, then spend the extra points on troops, two scoring units at 2K is nowhere near enough.

**daedalus**

Greyfox231 wrote:
The tanks were going to have the Vanquisher and the two LRBT in a squad with the two Punishers in another.

There is at least one Ork player that plays that has 2K points worth of orks, the other 4 are just starting. I also playing against most of the other armies, mainly BA, Tau, Necrons, Eldar, DE with possibilities of 'nids in the future. As of right now all I have built is the Valkyrie, CCS, the two vet squads, and one LRBT

In that case, I see the rationale for all the flamers, and I understand the lack of special weapons from rereading the OP. Mechvets (the kind of veteran-in-transport list you're trying to build here) are kind of expensive to build out right. The reason for this is because you need lots of meltaguns and plasmaguns for it to work properly because there are no other special weapons worth taking as much. The problem is that you get one of each in a Company Command box, and that's the only location for them. If you're not opposed to pewter, then you might consider the special weapon blister packs that have one of each as a one-piece metal guy. If you (like me) are doing too much custom parts/modelling to pull that off, then you should consider the 5-piece blister of meltaguns from GW's bitz section. It's under Space Marines. Those will require some cutting and heavy modification to work as well, though they work pretty well if you cut up the flamer arms or the grenade launcher arms.

The mantra of the IG is, "Specialize, Specialize, Specialize." We have cheap enough guys, tanks, and guns; why shouldn't we? Squads should be set to handle one specific thing, be it vehicles (melta), or heavy infantry (plasma). Note that in a pinch, you can improvise and fire plasma at a tank. Generally vehicles should be organized and kitted based upon target synergy. In this case, LRBT is S8 AP3, the perfect space marine killer, while the Vanquisher is crazy anti-tank (if it hits). I would not squadron them in this case.

Now, if you're paying attention, you'll notice that I mentioned that everything should be specialized, yet yesterday for your army list, I said that you should bring a heavy flamer and either a multilaser or a heavy bolter for your Chimeras. But daedalus! Why be a hypocrite? Well, the reason is because they're non-fast transports. You should be transporting with them. They're cheap walls for your infantry to hide inside, but your infantry don't do much good unless they can shoot at something, and that means you can only fire one gun per round. Might as well get to pick if it's at something right in front of you, or something halfway across the board, right?

**Greyfox231**

First off I'd like to thank all who replied with advice.

daedalus wrote:
Greyfox231 wrote:
The tanks were going to have the Vanquisher and the two LRBT in a squad with the two Punishers in another.

There is at least one Ork player that plays that has 2K points worth of orks, the other 4 are just starting. I also playing against most of the other armies, mainly BA, Tau, Necrons, Eldar, DE with possibilities of 'nids in the future. As of right now all I have built is the Valkyrie, CCS, the two vet squads, and one LRBT

In that case, I see the rationale for all the flamers, and I understand the lack of special weapons from rereading the OP. Mechvets (the kind of veteran-in-transport list you're trying to build here) are kind of expensive to build out right. The reason for this is because you need lots of meltaguns and plasmaguns for it to work properly because there are no other special weapons worth taking as much. The problem is that you get one of each in a Company Command box, and that's the only location for them. If you're not opposed to pewter, then you might consider the special weapon blister packs that have one of each as a one-piece metal guy. If you (like me) are doing too much custom parts/modelling to pull that off, then you should consider the 5-piece blister of meltaguns from GW's bitz section. It's under Space Marines. Those will require some cutting and heavy modification to work as well, though they work pretty well if you cut up the flamer arms or the grenade launcher arms.

The mantra of the IG is, "Specialize, Specialize, Specialize." We have cheap enough guys, tanks, and guns; why shouldn't we? Squads should be set to handle one specific thing, be it vehicles (melta), or heavy infantry (plasma). Note that in a pinch, you can improvise and fire plasma at a tank. Generally vehicles should be organized and kitted based upon target synergy. In this case, LRBT is S8 AP3, the perfect space marine killer, while the Vanquisher is crazy anti-tank (if it hits). I would not squadron them in this case.

Now, if you're paying attention, you'll notice that I mentioned that everything should be specialized, yet yesterday for your army list, I said that you should bring a heavy flamer and either a multilaser or a heavy bolter for your Chimeras. But daedalus! Why be a hypocrite? Well, the reason is because they're non-fast transports. You should be transporting with them. They're cheap walls for your infantry to hide inside, but your infantry don't do much good unless they can shoot at something, and that means you can only fire one gun per round. Might as well get to pick if it's at something right in front of you, or something halfway across the board, right?

Indeed, but at the moment I have changed up the list a bit, I now have the two Punishers squadroned up for anti-infantry fire. I am planning on buying the extra tank spurs that have the turrets so I can swap out between the variants of the Leman Russ' easily without having to buy the whole models.

I'm now playing with about 1035 points worth of models, the two vet squads one with 3 plasmas, and one with 3 melta's both with voxes. The command squad is still the same I now have a chimera which is dedicated to the CCS and it has a Multilaser and hull heavy flamer. I have the two LRBT which are not squadroned with one Sentinel with a lascannon and the valkyrie. The valkyrie might be replaced with either another hellhound of banewolf as the two battles I actually played one at 750 points, teamed with an ork player against 2k tau, and 1k points against necrons. Both times the Valkyrie was dead within turn 2 to 3, though I'm still learning the rules and developing strategies so I may not of been using the valkyrie as effectively as I possibly could.

All in all I'm taking everyones advice from here and from the friends who I play with who know much more then me about the game, and watching how my games go and make changes to my list that way

**Commander Krayen**

Cool