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Due to theme (and cost) constraints I have nothing with an armor value (tanks, sentinals, etc), and I'm curious how I might improve my chances on the battlefield. Here's my current 2000-point list:

HQ:
Company Command Squad, Astropath, Lascannon (100 points)

Troop #1: Infantry Platoon (715 points)
Platoon Command Squad, Plasma Pistol & 4x Plasma Gun (100 points)
Infantry Squad, Meltagun, Lascannon (80 points)
Infantry Squad, Meltagun, Lascannon (80 points)
Special Weapons Team, 2x Flamer, Demo Charge (65 points)
Heavy Weapons Team, 3x Heavy Bolters (75 points)
Heavy Weapons Team, 3x Lascannon (105 points)
Heavy Weapons Team, 3x Lascannon (105 points)
Heavy Weapons Team, 3x Lascannon (105 points)

Troop #2: Infantry Platoon same as #1 (715 points)

Troop #3: Infantry Platoon (470 points total)
Platoon Command Squad, Al'rahem, 4x Meltagun (140 points)
Infantry Squad, Meltagun (60 points)
Infantry Squad, Meltagun (60 points)
Special Weapons Team, 2x Flamer, Demo Charge (65 points)
Special Weapons Team, 2x Flamer, Demo Charge (65 points)
20 Conscripts (80 points)

Setting up, that's 23 Lascannons for long-range firepower, 6 Heavy Bolters and 4 flamers for hordes, eighteen dice of plasma for close-range marines and the Demo charges just for amusement. Al'rahem shows up on a 3+ and I can re-roll where he arrives, so he and his six meltaguns can secure one flank. And two more Demo charges for more random destruction. The army is Skaven-themed so the sheer self-destructive potential in a weapon that can easily scatter back onto the squad is vastly appropriate.

I've wiped out Rhino-riding marines, been tabled (in a horrifying four turns) by mechanized IG, tied with poorly-maneuvered Tau and gone down to the wire with Dark Eldar. I haven't faced a true horde army (e.g. 100+ orks) and I'm rather afraid of when I do. Any suggestions on how to change things?

It would probably be better get have more movable platoons. Powerblobing them would be a good idea insetad of lascanoons, at the sacrifice of a HWS or 2 if needed to get a 3rd squad and a commissar. Astro needs more people to make him worth while, swapping some lascannon squads for melta storms would be nice. Also plasma works better on the CCS isntead of PCS. Switch HB for autos, HB on normal guard isnt very effective at all. Conscripts arent that good for outflanking. drop that to get more points for powerblobs.

Hmmm, I think a foot IG army should be more horde like. Less HWS, more infantry squads and conscrips, but you must bot sacrifice too much anti tank capability. I fought against a guy who had just infantry squads (1 lascannon each) vets and conscripts! (he tabled me)

for the lascannons, creed would be a good but, since he can give 4 heavy weapons teams twin linked against vehicles. suddenly them lascannons just got a lot more dangerous.

I think your army is going to have a few basic problems. Your first platoon is all shooting with nothing to resist assault. Your second platoon has Al'Rahem, so the ENTIRE platoon MUST outflank - what will you do if the reserves don't come in early enough, or come in on the wrong side? You have an astropath, which makes it about an 8/9 chance to come in on the desired board edge (but not certain to bring them in early enough) But the astropath could be taken out by a lot of armies. Even with him, I think you are very vulnerable to anything that can strike hard and fast, or deep strike on top of your first platoon.

Basically, I think you need to redistribute things and make your infantry squads suitable for combined squads with commissars. Currently you're just using them as weapons carriers, which is sort of missing the point - you have HWS and SWS packing on the guns, you need to be able to use infantry to protect them. Currently, 1-2 good multi-assaults will crumple your army.

Conscripts are worse than regular guardsmen, heavy bolters are worse than autocannons, don't bother with plasma pistols on officers.

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:I think your army is going to have a few basic problems. Your first platoon is all shooting with nothing to resist assault. Your second platoon has Al'Rahem, so the ENTIRE platoon MUST outflank - what will you do if the reserves don't come in early enough, or come in on the wrong side? You have an astropath, which makes it about an 8/9 chance to come in on the desired board edge (but not certain to bring them in early enough) But the astropath could be taken out by a lot of armies. Even with him, I think you are very vulnerable to anything that can strike hard and fast, or deep strike on top of your first platoon.

Basically, I think you need to redistribute things and make your infantry squads suitable for combined squads with commissars. Currently you're just using them as weapons carriers, which is sort of missing the point - you have HWS and SWS packing on the guns, you need to be able to use infantry to protect them. Currently, 1-2 good multi-assaults will crumple your army.

Conscripts are worse than regular guardsmen, heavy bolters are worse than autocannons, don't bother with plasma pistols on officers.

*nod* My resist assault ability is yelling "Not in the face!" and I definitely have problems with assault/deep strike armies - such as Blood Angels or 5 Drop Pods the first turn. That's why I A) deploy to avoid one of their units assaulting multiple of mine, B) have the plasma squads behind (not in) cover so they can hop out and rapid fire at the unit that just killed their friends and C) prepare to lose gracefully. I'm sacrificing melee ability (such as commissars) for guns, and if walkers ever get into close combat I'm just dead. It's a design choice, and the only thing I *really* fear is Dawn of War.

I'm also quite aware that Al'rahem makes the entire third platoon outflank but with the astropath hidden he's reasonably reliable, and in Capture & Control missions (one objective each) people tend to put it in the corner and guard it with only one or two units. Also, having that many bodies appear tends to stall assaults - given a much closer target that just chucked demo charges at you is wonderfully distracting. Yes, it makes for a bad afternoon for AL'rahem & friends, but all my HW teams just cheer and pull the trigger.

Why take SWS at all? They are no were close to being as good as vets or a PCS. Point-wise it's just a waste to take them. That's a lot of heavy weapons on the board but keep in mind they don't have any extra models to really soak up wounds anymore, so a well-placed template can have your HWS either dead or running.

Why give LasCannon squads meltaguns? They don't blend at all. LasCannon squads are for sitting in cover and plinking, waiting for the tanks to get within 12 inches is foolish.

Jarreas wrote:

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:I think your army is going to have a few basic problems. Your first platoon is all shooting with nothing to resist assault. Your second platoon has Al'Rahem, so the ENTIRE platoon MUST outflank - what will you do if the reserves don't come in early enough, or come in on the wrong side? You have an astropath, which makes it about an 8/9 chance to come in on the desired board edge (but not certain to bring them in early enough) But the astropath could be taken out by a lot of armies. Even with him, I think you are very vulnerable to anything that can strike hard and fast, or deep strike on top of your first platoon.

Basically, I think you need to redistribute things and make your infantry squads suitable for combined squads with commissars. Currently you're just using them as weapons carriers, which is sort of missing the point - you have HWS and SWS packing on the guns, you need to be able to use infantry to protect them. Currently, 1-2 good multi-assaults will crumple your army.

Conscripts are worse than regular guardsmen, heavy bolters are worse than autocannons, don't bother with plasma pistols on officers.

*nod* My resist assault ability is yelling "Not in the face!" and I definitely have problems with assault/deep strike armies - such as Blood Angels or 5 Drop Pods the first turn. That's why I A) deploy to avoid one of their units assaulting multiple of mine, B) have the plasma squads behind (not in) cover so they can hop out and rapid fire at the unit that just killed their friends and C) prepare to lose gracefully. I'm sacrificing melee ability (such as commissars) for guns, and if walkers ever get into close combat I'm just dead. It's a design choice, and the only thing I *really* fear is Dawn of War.

I'm also quite aware that Al'rahem makes the entire third platoon outflank but with the astropath hidden he's reasonably reliable, and in Capture & Control missions (one objective each) people tend to put it in the corner and guard it with only one or two units. Also, having that many bodies appear tends to stall assaults - given a much closer target that just chucked demo charges at you is wonderfully distracting. Yes, it makes for a bad afternoon for AL'rahem & friends, but all my HW teams just cheer and pull the trigger.

Well, I'm not sure I agree, but I respect your view. Can I at least say I don't think the conscripts fit well in their current position, they would be better off as a skirmish line to delay a turn's assault on the shooting platoons, than in the outflanking force. Just string them out in front of the HWS, go to ground if shot, if your opponent wants to get through them he must assault, he should clear them out in 1 round and be left exposed to more shooting. Seems like they'd be more use in that role than jumping on something from the side of the board, as they have so little offensive ability.

I genuinely believe autocannons are all-round superior to HBs for the same cost. Better range and strength is so useful against vehicles (very common) whereas the HB is only really better against light infantry (surprisingly uncommon).

Also, have you considered any stormtroopers or marbo to deepstrike on concealed enemy heavy weapon squads, or concealed barrage vehicles. It seems to me that HWSs reach a certain saturation point in that there are only so many you can fit into your deployment zone and still shoot efficiently, so you might swap some for firepower that doesn't need straight LoS.

Oh yeah, Creed and/or Kell? I'm not certain they're worth it (they represent a good 2 HWS themselves, but they do give good orders, and the standard helps stop HWS running away. As a matter of fact that's another thing. Why no standard? When I play against IG, I often make a few HWS run away by the end of the game, standard helps against that, and against tank shock etc.