Emergency Disembark from Monolith

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**Kevin949**

So, here is where this all started -

omerakk wrote:You can decide before the game weather or not the monolith can ds and still fire. If you go by RAW, this is legal, so if he chooses to play it that way, it's ok.

And yes, if you block the monolith door, any reinforcements he declared entering play from the monolith will be destroyed if they come in that because they can't disembark.
They are also not allowed to emergency disembark because the Monolith is not a transport that they are trying to get out of; they are specifically teleporting in from the front portal only
*this would also apply to trying to teleport a group too large to fit everything out of the front. You would follow the normal rules and any unit that can't legally disembark is destoryed

Kevin949 wrote:It has a transport capacity, you disembark from it in the normal fashion of disembarking from ANY transport.

omerakk wrote:It doesn't have an actual transport capacity though, that is to say, units can't be held inside of it. The emergency disembarking rules only apply to normal disembarking rules on page 67. For this to be possible, the unit must start it's turn inside the vehicle; something the necron units can't do since they are either on the board already, or are in reserve

Dashofpepper wrote:
omerakk wrote:It doesn't have an actual transport capacity though, that is to say, units can't be held inside of it. The emergency disembarking rules only apply to normal disembarking rules on page 67. For this to be possible, the unit must start it's turn inside the vehicle; something the necron units can't do since they are either on the board already, or are in reserve

Oh? Where do you get the part about "it must start its turn inside the vehicle" from?

The Monolith says to treat emerging warriors as if they are disembarking from a stationary vehicle. That's pretty precise to me.

omerakk wrote:Right, it says to follow the normal disembarking rules, but those rules on page 67 of the rulebook apply to units inside a vehicle only, so if you argue that you follow all of the accompanying rules, the monolith wouldn't even be capable of teleporting to begin with. The only way it's technically legal is only to apply the basic disembarking and movement rules and nothing else.

The whole emergency disembark rule is a fluff rule really. The door on your rhino can't be opened? Fine. Kick out a window, blow torch the side, whatever you have to do to get out. You can't really do any of that as a Necron since you're not even inside the monolith to begin with. You exit the teleporter and slam right into a brick wall and die with no time to react.

If you can emergency disembark from that, why do units in reserve die if the monolith they nominated to arrive from is wrecked? Normal units can still emergency disembark from a wrecked vehicle. If you say it's because the teleporter is down, you're admitting that is the only point of exit on the vehicle and it doesn't follow the normal disembarking rules because it's a special case

Kevin949 wrote:
omerakk wrote:Right, it says to follow the normal disembarking rules, but those rules on page 67 of the rulebook apply to units inside a vehicle only, so if you argue that you follow all of the accompanying rules, the monolith wouldn't even be capable of teleporting to begin with. The only way it's technically legal is only to apply the basic disembarking and movement rules and nothing else.

The whole emergency disembark rule is a fluff rule really. The door on your rhino can't be opened? Fine. Kick out a window, blow torch the side, whatever you have to do to get out. You can't really do any of that as a Necron since you're not even inside the monolith to begin with. You exit the teleporter and slam right into a brick wall and die with no time to react.

If you can emergency disembark from that, why do units in reserve die if the monolith they nominated to arrive from is wrecked? Normal units can still emergency disembark from a wrecked vehicle. If you say it's because the teleporter is down, you're admitting that is the only point of exit on the vehicle and it doesn't follow the normal disembarking rules because it's a special case

Well if we're gonna talk fluff and not rules, then the monolith portal/teleport function performs an emergency random teleport to phase them in anywhere around the lith that is viable and due to the shock of not knowing the location they land in the warriors (or other necron unit) can't do anything for the rest of the turn while they regain their awareness of their surroundings.

The fact remains that the monolith "does" have a transport capacity. Just because it's not a number doesn't mean you can just disregard it as an allowable requirement. Emergency disembarkation does not apply only to units that "begin their turn in a transport vehicle", it simply states what to do when embarking from a vehicle when "all" access points are blocked. Also, where do you think the necrons go when they're teleported? Inside the monolith. The only difference between the liths transport and, say, a rhino, is that the embark rule is overwritten with an 18" range instead of 2" and the unit has to immediately disembark, per the normal disembark rules.

And the warriors are destroyed if in reserve and all monoliths are gone (if elected to come in from a lith) because the general consensus is that they are awaiting transport from either a space craft or deep underground. Unlike warriors walking in who are just...well, walking in.

omerakk wrote:
Well if we're gonna talk fluff and not rules, then the monolith portal/teleport function performs an emergency random teleport to phase them in anywhere around the lith that is viable and due to the shock of not knowing the location they land in the warriors (or other necron unit) can't do anything for the rest of the turn while they regain their awareness of their surroundings.

Ya, but it specifically says they can only teleport through the portal. If they could appear anywhere around the monolith, they could just appear anywhere on the battlefield if they wanted to take a risk, but they can't

The fact remains that the monolith "does" have a transport capacity. Just because it's not a number doesn't mean you can just disregard it as an allowable requirement. Emergency disembarkation does not apply only to units that "begin their turn in a transport vehicle", it simply states what to do when embarking from a vehicle when "all" access points are blocked.

See, this is what I find confusing. The monolith rule says to treat the units as making a normal disembark move, and the normal disembark move specifically says the unit must start inside a vehicle, so how do you know which rules apply and which don't? It seems more like personal taste to the players than it does for rules

Also, where do you think the necrons go when they're teleported? Inside the monolith. The only difference between the liths transport and, say, a rhino, is that the embark rule is overwritten with an 18" range instead of 2" and the unit has to immediately disembark, per the normal disembark rules.

They don' though, their point of entry to reality is the actual portal. Think of that Stargate show.

I didn't mean to start a rules debate over this. It just seemed like blatant cheese hunting to me

Kevin949 wrote:
omerakk wrote:
Well if we're gonna talk fluff and not rules, then the monolith portal/teleport function performs an emergency random teleport to phase them in anywhere around the lith that is viable and due to the shock of not knowing the location they land in the warriors (or other necron unit) can't do anything for the rest of the turn while they regain their awareness of their surroundings.

Ya, but it specifically says they can only teleport through the portal. If they could appear anywhere around the monolith, they could just appear anywhere on the battlefield if they wanted to take a risk, but they can't

The fact remains that the monolith "does" have a transport capacity. Just because it's not a number doesn't mean you can just disregard it as an allowable requirement. Emergency disembarkation does not apply only to units that "begin their turn in a transport vehicle", it simply states what to do when embarking from a vehicle when "all" access points are blocked.

See, this is what I find confusing. The monolith rule says to treat the units as making a normal disembark move, and the normal disembark move specifically says the unit must start inside a vehicle, so how do you know which rules apply and which don't? It seems more like personal taste to the players than it does for rules

Also, where do you think the necrons go when they're teleported? Inside the monolith. The only difference between the liths transport and, say, a rhino, is that the embark rule is overwritten with an 18" range instead of 2" and the unit has to immediately disembark, per the normal disembark rules.

They don' though, their point of entry to reality is the actual portal. Think of that Stargate show.

I didn't mean to start a rules debate over this. It just seemed like blatant cheese hunting to me

No, it says they must immediately emerge through the portal. Nothing says they can't emergency disembark. And nothing says they can ONLY come through the portal, it just states the portal is the only exit point on the monolith, as opposed to other vehicles that have multiple access points.

What's so difficult to understand that you're still embarking on the monolith, it is just not a standard embarkation. The disembark is 100% normal to every vehicle rule there is, you are simply FORCED to disembark when you get teleported by the monolith. You do NOT have to start in the vehicle, the only thing that says anything to the contrary is that you can't embark/disembark in the same round, but the monolith rules override that part to an extent.

Stop using fluff! I don't care if they go into a pocket of time dilation, they're still embarked on the monolith for that fraction of time. Cheese hunting is trying to say that the monolith can't use standard disembarkation rules and thus it make it even easier to destroy units of necrons by blocking a small 2" area around a giant vehicle.

omerakk wrote:Why exactly do you think necrons are inside of the monolith? If that's the case, what the heck is the point in having the portal at the front? They portal through the door to the inside of the monolith, then turn around and walk through the portal again to get out? That makes no sense.

If they necrons were teleporting to the inside of the monolith, the portal would be inside the monolith too. Then the necron lord could just say "ok guys, you're here, now walk out the front door. If thats blocked, escape out one of the laundry chutes on the sides of the monolith or something"

The portal isnt inside the monolith though, its only at the front, and thats why units cant emergency disembark, because they arent embarked to begin with. Thats why the monolith rule says necron units "emerge from the portal" instead of "exit the portal" or "exit the monolith"

Kevin949 wrote:
omerakk wrote:Why exactly do you think necrons are inside of the monolith? If that's the case, what the heck is the point in having the portal at the front? They portal through the door to the inside of the monolith, then turn around and walk through the portal again to get out? That makes no sense.

If they necrons were teleporting to the inside of the monolith, the portal would be inside the monolith too. Then the necron lord could just say "ok guys, you're here, now walk out the front door. If thats blocked, escape out one of the laundry chutes on the sides of the monolith or something"

The portal isnt inside the monolith though, its only at the front, and thats why units cant emergency disembark, because they arent embarked to begin with. Thats why the monolith rule says necron units "emerge from the portal" instead of "exit the portal" or "exit the monolith"

Seriously, you're going to say that "emerge" is not the same as exit? Dude, it DOES NOT MATTER where they go when they're teleported. Does not, never, ever, in any sense, matter. They are still embarking and disembarking. The embarkation is special to the monolith, the disembarkation is standard to ALL VEHICLES. It does not MATTER how they disembark, only the rules matter. And the rules do not prohibit an emergency disembarkation from a monolith.

Please discuss and let's see if we can't come to a decision on this. Plus I wanted to stop hyjacking that other guys thread. I'll add more poll options if desired.

**insaniak**

It works '...as if they were disembarking...' so you refer to the normal rules for disembarking.

Emergency disembarking is a part of the normal rules for disembarking.

So yes, you can emergency disembark if the portal is blocked.

**liam0404**

You are 100% allowed to disembark that way from the monolith. Insaniak nails it on the head - its treated as a disembarkation, therefore it is bound by ALL the disebmarkation rules.

There really is no flexibility on this issue, i'm amazed that argument went on as long as it did.

**Cheex**

+1 to Insaniak. You follow all the normal rules for disembarking, which includes emergency disembarking.

**Ascalam**

That said, how often is this going to come up, as you can see if you are blocked before you teleport.

+1 to it being exactly the same as the Disembarking rules.

**Kevin949**

Specifically it was for bringing on warriors through the lith from reserves. A situation which you have little control over.

**Ascalam**

Fair point then.

Roll on new codex time

**omerakk**

so after all that, the general consensus is split almost down the middle

August can't get here quick enough

**insaniak**

The poll results are split fairly evenly. It's interesting though that nobody has posted any rules to back up the 'No' vote.

**hearne**

Out of curiosity, from a "logic" standpoint, what makes the monolith different from a DE webway portal? Emergency disembarkation relies on a top hatch or other exit points for the vehicle.

With that said, the entry is clear "as if they were disembarking." I find that entry to be an example of lazy writing, as a monolith and a SM transport are very different, and having the rules be the same is misleading. I suspect the writer wanted to use a set of unified standard disembarkation rules, but shouldn't have in this case. But, since he did.. we follow the RAW, and emergency disembarkation is available to the necrons.

Is it bad to fear that the new codex is likely to only muddy the water rather than clarifying it?

**Jidmah**

Polls don't do anything. 83% of the people in a survey held in London believed the battle for helm's klam was real, while 54% were sure that the vietnam war is nothing but fiction.
I honestly think a rules discussion with a poll on top kills the whole point of posting in YMDC in the first place.

That said, why should any rules for forced disembarking not work on a monolith? It's the same as SM jumping out of a drop pod.

**insaniak**

hearne wrote:Out of curiosity, from a "logic" standpoint, what makes the monolith different from a DE webway portal? Emergency disembarkation relies on a top hatch or other exit points for the vehicle.

Fluff explanations for how a given rule works don't actually have any bearing on whether or not a rule applies to any given model.

Besides which, the emergency disembarking rules say nothing about how the unit is actually managing to exit the vehicle. Yes, you could assume that it's down to them somehow making use of other hatches than the normal exit points. But by that token, you could just as easily assume that the monolith is simply using some sort of emergency backup system and teleporting the Necron unit directly outside, rather than shifting them through the hatch, in a similar fashion to Star Trek transporters prefering to work through transporter pads, but being capable in an emergency of site-to-site transport without going through a pad...

That's if you really feel the need to justify the rule with fluff

With that said, the entry is clear "as if they were disembarking." I find that entry to be an example of lazy writing, as a monolith and a SM transport are very different, and having the rules be the same is misleading.

It's not lazy writing. It's a rule that was written for an edition of the game where disembarking worked slightly differently. But it still functions perfectly fine in this edition. The Necrons being able to disembark when the portal is blocked makes no less sense than Marines being able to do the same thing from a Land Raider, or Eldar being able to do it from a Falcon (which only has the one single rear hatch...)

**Kevin949**

Jidmah wrote:Polls don't do anything. 83% of the people in a survey held in London believed the battle for helm's klam was real, while 54% were sure that the vietnam war is nothing but fiction.
I honestly think a rules discussion with a poll on top kills the whole point of posting in YMDC in the first place.

That said, why should any rules for forced disembarking not work on a monolith? It's the same as SM jumping out of a drop pod.

And 93% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Mostly I was just curious but I'm guessing many of the "no" answers didn't read the first post (I understand it's pretty lengthy). I could be wrong in that too (see above).

**Jidmah**

Other possibilities are people recently losing to necrons, people not caring at all, people remembering it wrong because their necron opponents play it wrong or people trolling.

**Kevin949**

They're endless! Heh.