Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've recently discovered how utterly amazing a 30-man power blob is and started running them in my lists. I want to upgrade to 2,000 pt games but with my current list I can't figure out how to add an additional 30 guys as that also involves buying a whole other platoon for your FOC. A 20 man blob, however, is doable as it doesn't include a mandatory platoon command squad.

So my question is, are blobs 20 men strong worth it? And on an aside, does anyone use power blobs with power fists? Seems a worthy investment for the added strength.

Well, first off, you can't do Powerfists in blobs. If you could, you'd see a lot more blob-centric lists. I personally run 30 when I do, but I could see 20-man ones working. You'd need two or more, though.

But for someone who actually runs this a lot, we need Aliaros. Sound the horn!

20-man power blob could work but it would almost require a second PW Commissar.

Or at least I would recommend it.

Kommissar Kel wrote:20-man power blob could work but it would almost require a second PW Commissar.

Or at least I would recommend it.

Ohhhhh I hadn't considered that idea, that's BRILLIANT!

power blobs are good at twenty troops. no matter how many troops are in the blobs, commissars are a must. you need that stuborn and possible re roll.

I run three 21-man powerblobs in my hybrid list, and they do just fine. When I know something nasty is coming my way, I can easily combine two of them that are in the same FOC into a 42 blob, and eat armies for breakfast. 21s usually provide more flexibility while still being able to eat through most non-uber CC units.

I'm not sure I see the point in adding a second Commissar, though. That's 45 points for more attacks. If you've got 45 points, you've most likely got the 60 that would buy you another PIS. Really, can't you do without those Vox casters?

The extra Commissar doesn't sound like a bad option but it does sound like its optional as opposed to mandatory like the first one.
Its 3 extra PW attacks @ WS4 so its quite a big bump in damage.

However I'm worried that if you do fail a test, you'll be forced to have one Commissar kill the other.

Commissar will never take down his fellow commissar. It's in the summary execution rule.

Why get another commissar for 45p when you can get a whole squad with PW for 60p?

I've always found 20 man blobs too fragile. I run 30 man blobs and they're fine and not too unwieldly.

20 men is too few for anything but carrying heavy/special support weapons.

30 man is about right, 40-50 can be cumbersome

I run 50 man platoons, with a set 30 man blob with autocanons and a 20 man HW blob usually with lascannons, if I want I can form it into a 50 man.

Grundz wrote:20 men is too few for anything but carrying heavy/special support weapons.

30 man is about right, 40-50 can be cumbersome

I run 50 man platoons, with a set 30 man blob with autocanons and a 20 man HW blob usually with lascannons, if I want I can form it into a 50 man.

What are you throwing the 21-man blobs against that they're coming up short? I've had wonderful success with them any time they haven't, say, been charged by a unit of 5 raveners. They eat most everything without a problem, including terminators. If something is a little too punchy, you can always bring two blobs or just soften it up with shooting.

Kubik wrote:Commissar will never take down his fellow commissar. It's in the summary execution rule.

Ahh thanks, I never noticed that part of the rule. Ignore my previous statement then!

ElCheezus wrote:

What are you throwing the 21-man blobs against that they're coming up short?

I was thinking about this too. 21 guys is 165-185 points on average. I would expect it to be able to handle about that many points worth of enemy units. Anything more, especially if its a dedicated assault unit and I would expect to the blob to get wiped out as it should.
Being a Chaos player, I use the Khorne Berzerker as my yardstick for assault units. 10 KBs in a Rhino will run you 245 points plus whatever special CCW they're using. On the charge you would expect those 10 KB's to eat through 15 Guardsmen before they can swing so in a perfect world that still leaves all the PW guys alive ready to chop into the KB and kill 1-2. Thats not bad at all for a shooting unit against a more expensive assault unit who got the charge in.

ph34r wrote:Why get another commissar for 45p when you can get a whole squad with PW for 60p?

Because as is the Case with the OP; He already has a 30(31)-man blob in his 1 platoon and Wants a Second Power Blob, but does not want to buy a Whole Second Platoon(which basically changes from a Whole 3rd squad with Power weapon, to a Third squad plus a second Plat-comm squad; a grand total of 90 points instead of 45 and an additional Kill point on the Table).

minigun762 wrote:I was thinking about this too. 21 guys is 165-185 points on average. I would expect it to be able to handle about that many points worth of enemy units. Anything more, especially if its a dedicated assault unit and I would expect to the blob to get wiped out as it should.
Being a Chaos player, I use the Khorne Berzerker as my yardstick for assault units. 10 KBs in a Rhino will run you 245 points plus whatever special CCW they're using. On the charge you would expect those 10 KB's to eat through 15 Guardsmen before they can swing so in a perfect world that still leaves all the PW guys alive ready to chop into the KB and kill 1-2. Thats not bad at all for a shooting unit against a more expensive assault unit who got the charge in.

The problem here isn't that you lose 15 guys. The problem is that more than enough wounds got allocated. Given Murphy's Law, your Commissar is gone (at least, I don't think I've ever had a Commissar make an important save). This is one of the blob's weaknesses, volume of attacks, and KBs definitely have that. With a 31-blob, though, you could probably handle it. This is a good case for either softening up the opponent or bringing multiple blobs to the party.

Of course, if you see units like this often enough and can't reliably manoeuver around or otherwise weaken them, this is a good case for larger blobs, too. Like most things, the meta determines whats best. I'm betting the flexibility of multiple 21 blobs instead of sturdier 31s usually pans out, though. Again, I love the fact that in my list I can make a 42 if I deem it necessary. In that case you need a serious CC unit to come out alive.

(can you tell I'm a huge fan of flexibility and creating optiosn?)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kommissar Kel wrote:

ph34r wrote:Why get another commissar for 45p when you can get a whole squad with PW for 60p?

Because as is the Case with the OP; He already has a 30(31)-man blob in his 1 platoon and Wants a Second Power Blob, but does not want to buy a Whole Second Platoon(which basically changes from a Whole 3rd squad with Power weapon, to a Third squad plus a second Plat-comm squad; a grand total of 90 points instead of 45 and an additional Kill point on the Table).

Yep, that would be why you would take another Commissar. I think I missed that earlier.

ElCheezus wrote:
What are you throwing the 21-man blobs against that they're coming up short? I've had wonderful success with them any time they haven't, say, been charged by a unit of 5 raveners. They eat most everything without a problem, including terminators. If something is a little too punchy, you can always bring two blobs or just soften it up with shooting.

well here's the thing with blobs, they can pretty much always take their point value in combat given enough combat phases, but a good opponent can focus his CC charges on one blob at a time. a 30 man blob has a significant chance of still getting some power weapon swings off in that case.

keep in mind I play infantry guard, not quite ailaros levels of infantry, but pretty close. and my local meta isn't MSU-based, so I've found that 30 man blobs work best for me. I can see with enough cover or providing better targets, or against MSU opponents that dont quite bring as much anti infantry firepower to bear, 20 men could be sufficient. If it were me, I'd start with some 20 and 30 man blobs and see what you like the flavor of.

Yeah, if your meta is full of deathstars or units that deal out tons of attacks, you'll probably need more cushion. If you're running all-infantry and have a number of other blobs already, then you've probably got the coverage and mobility I look for with my 21s, so there's another reason increasing size might be a better choice.

The nice thing about blobs is that their power progresses geometrically instead of linearly. That is, by doubling the number you double the number of power weapon attacks, and last twice as long, giving you four times the carnage.

I dream someday of running a 62-man DKoK blob with 7 power fists and a Wichhunter allied priest to give hidden re-rolls while having the DKoK HQ that gives FNP close by. How's that for geometric force multipliers?

Well, I see how IG is considered a Horde army. You can have a 50 man unit? Whow.

Speaking as an Ork player (and I know the Orks have a much different ramp-up, specially with CC), 20 models is usually plenty to tie up or take down units that aren't idealized for anti-horde (like Blender dredds), just from sheer number of wounds and attacks. 30 is more, of course, but 20's still a whole lot.

Anvildude wrote:Well, I see how IG is considered a Horde army. You can have a 50 man unit? Whow.

Speaking as an Ork player (and I know the Orks have a much different ramp-up, specially with CC), 20 models is usually plenty to tie up or take down units that aren't idealized for anti-horde (like Blender dredds), just from sheer number of wounds and attacks. 30 is more, of course, but 20's still a whole lot.

Orks benefit from a lot more attacks, higher WS, higher S, and higher Toughness. Plus the hidden PK adds some punch that IG would love. We have more power weapons, but we're still S 3. Then again, we don't have to worry about fearless wounds. Because of the defensive Ork benefits (WS 4, T 4), they take 2/3rd the casualties IG do against marine attacks, even with worse armor. I still think that 20 is (usually) enough for IG, though there are times where more would be better, but comparing to Orks, remember that on a per-dude basis your guys go a bit more distance.

Right, I've run pretty exclusively 20 man blobs, and they've done me just fine. Yes, I lose blobs, but usually they're all left, just really hurt (which, given that they're blobs, means that they're still fully potent until the last couple of models).

As el cheezus notes, that which can't be taken down by a single 20 man blob can usually be taken down by two. With 20 man blobs being so relatively cheap, you can afford to take lots of them, which means that having two in any one area really isn't that difficult.

Plus, in KP games, they lump into 40's for a VERY tough to claim KP.

As for slugga mobz, well, that's what you get lasguns and FRF for. Just because you're running a unit that's designed to assault doesn't mean it isn't sometimes wiser to shoot instead.

Ailaros wrote:Right, I've run pretty exclusively 20 man blobs, and they've done me just fine. Yes, I lose blobs, but usually they're all left, just really hurt (which, given that they're blobs, means that they're still fully potent until the last couple of models).

As el cheezus notes, that which can't be taken down by a single 20 man blob can usually be taken down by two. With 20 man blobs being so relatively cheap, you can afford to take lots of them, which means that having two in any one area really isn't that difficult.

Plus, in KP games, they lump into 40's for a VERY tough to claim KP.

As for slugga mobz, well, that's what you get lasguns and FRF for. Just because you're running a unit that's designed to assault doesn't mean it isn't sometimes wiser to shoot instead.

I've used 40 man power blobs. My opponents always complain and ask if it's even legal
BTW Ailaros did you invent power blobs?

How do you get the blob up field and onto objectives? Do you spend the first few turns running (maybe with Move! Move! Move!)?

I don't think anyone except the author can be credited for "inventing" a unit already in the codex. That's like saying someone invented fielding a lot of chimeras, or buying blood angels jump packs.

What special/heavy weapons do you folks mostly arm your blobs with? Meltaguns seem the obvious choice, to give them something to do against dreads and vehicles. Autocannons for a cheap way to pop vehicles also look appealing. I don't think I'd field both in one unit, though (jumps the cost to 205, 210 with vox).

Thanks for all the responses guys, you've all been very helpful.

I think I'm gonna go with a 30-man power blob with a commissar, supplemented by a 20-man power mob with 2 Commissars at 2,000 points.

minigun762 wrote:How do you get the blob up field and onto objectives? Do you spend the first few turns running (maybe with Move! Move! Move!)?

Yes. Move, move, move! is almost always the order of choice. Assaulting also helps, because of the 6" charge and d6" consolidate. As long as you're actually going to 5+ turns and don't have to call games because of time (grumble grumble), you should be able to get where you need to. If you need to be across the board, though, make sure you commit to it early enough. I had a game turn from a close victory to a draw because my blob spent one turn too long to decide to run for the opponent's objective.

withershadow wrote:I don't think anyone can be credited for "inventing" a unit already in the codex. That's like saying someone invented fielding a lot of chimeras.

What special/heavy weapons do you folks mostly arm your blobs with? Meltaguns seem the obvious choice, to give them something to do against dreads and vehicles. Autocannons for a cheap way to pop vehicles also look appealing. I don't think I'd field both in one unit, though (jumps the cost to 205, 210 with vox).

I'm extremely opposed to putting heavy weapons in blobs, except in very rare occasions. And even then, they're only mediocre. Specials I usually don't waste points on, but I can see benefit to meltas, if even just to help control where you opponent moves their vehicles. I pretty much always run my blobs at a cool 165 points.

Where do the heavy weapon teams go then? Heavy Weapon Squads?

withershadow wrote:What special/heavy weapons do you folks mostly arm your blobs with? Meltaguns seem the obvious choice, to give them something to do against dreads and vehicles. Autocannons for a cheap way to pop vehicles also look appealing. I don't think I'd field both in one unit, though (jumps the cost to 205, 210 with vox).

I understand that I'm still learning but I feel that the heavy weapon in a mobile blob just doesn't make sense. Its the whole problem of if you shoot the big gun, you aren't moving and if you move, you can't shoot the big gun.

I like to think of it as infantry squads only getting 2 types of weapons, either heavy/special or special/CCW. Let Tactical Marines try to balance having 3 types of fancy guns.

As for the type of special weapon, I go back and forth on this a lot.
Flamers = great anti-infantry weapon that doesn't use BS3 and its assault BUT how often do you use a template weapon when footslogging?
Grenade Launcher = decent all purpose gun thats always 24" range but its really middle of the road.
Melta = Great anti-tank but short range and added expense makes it seem difficult to rely on.
Plasma = Good all purpose gun that matches the profile of the Lasgun but SO expensive and can blow you up.

I'm leaning towards GL for cheap shooting supported by Meltabombs to handle heavy armor/walkers and the typical PW for killing MEQs/MCs.

Either Heavy Weapons Squads, your PIS or CCS (as Ailaros has shown to work decently). I personally get my heavy weapons options attached to vehicles. Hydras and Vendettas are just too efficient for me to turn down.

I'd like to hear from any power blob veterans if they have had any experience using vendettas in their lists? I would think that vendettas outflanking onto the board would work well with a big Al'Rahim blob. What are the pros and cons to running vendettas or valkyries with such a list?

I run Hybrid IG with 3 21-man blobs, and it includes 2 Vendettas. I never outflank them. Well, I have once. They're much too valuable to me on the board to miss a turn (or three) due to reserve rolls, and then they only get one shot the turn they come in, due to moving 12". For me, it's worth the risk of getting shot to have the full number of turns on the board.

I think they go well together, since Vendettas can bring the heavy weapons that support the blobs. Plus, I like putting my PCS in Vendettas with meltas for a turn-1 alpha strike if possible.