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I was reading both the Main rule book and my Codex and I started think about the Fire points. And after looking at the codex I saw nothing that would explain this. Here it comes, you might want to sit down . You can fire heavy weapons out of the access points. There it is. My question is... How is this justified? The justification for the firing points are the Side mounted lasguns. So i can understand maybe fudging it to fire like meltas and plasmas, but if i read it right, could someone move a Lacannon HSW into a chimera, and use it as a AV12 bunker. that you can fire out of. Please someone tell me this isn't true.


Note: I personally will not use the HW at all, and in friendly games, i disembark before i fire any weapon but a lasgun.

There's no fudging the rules when the rules allow for it.

If a Marine can fit a plasma cannon out the top of a Rhino then certainly the barrel of a heavy bolter could fit out the windows of a chimera.

As a side note, this should probably be in YMDC.

Melissia wrote:There's no fudging the rules when the rules allow for it.

If a Marine can fit a plasma cannon out the top of a Rhino then certainly the barrel of a heavy bolter could fit out the windows of a chimera.

I was saying fudging by that you could say you could fire small arms out of the points. The codex even says "in reality firing from the flank mounted lasgun." That what gets me. The firing point are lasguns mounted on the side of the chimera. That's it. But somehow you can fire a lascannon out of it. Now if it really was a window no big deal right.


But then again i should probably start reciting the MST3K mantra.
Edit: Typos.

And yet, by rules, they're fire points. Which are not restricted by weapon.

Melissia wrote:And yet, by rules, they're fire points. Which are not restricted by weapon.

You are correct. I was just hoping i had overlooked something.

Are you asking for a fluffy justification of the rule? I don't think there is one.

The hatch needed to fire a meltagun or flamer out of a Chimaera would have to be a couple of feet across to allow for the muzzle to be poked out safely and the operator to sight on the target. It makes no sense at all to put several two foot diameter holes in the side of an armoured personnel carrier.

Conversely if the weapons are being fired from the roof hatch, the operators have lost a lot of their armour protection, and the vehicle would probably count as open topped.

The rules were obviously designed to improve IG armies, which they do.

Kilkrazy wrote:Are you asking for a fluffy justification of the rule? I don't think there is one.

Kinda, and kinda hoping i misread something.

The hatch needed to fire a meltagun or flamer out of a Chimaera would have to be a couple of feet across to allow for the muzzle to be poked out safely and the operator to sight on the target. It makes no sense at all to put several two foot diameter holes in the side of an armoured personnel carrier.

Agreed.

Conversely if the weapons are being fired from the roof hatch, the operators have lost a lot of their armour protection, and the vehicle would probably count as open topped.

The rules were obviously designed to improve IG armies, which they do.

Yeah, it does really improve the IG, considering i can put 3 LC in it. Almost a mobile bunker. Still not going to do it personally. Hope no one uses it against me. My question is answered.

As Killkrazy and Melissia say. The original models were built when the rules list the lasguns as mannable weapons that were part of the vehicle. Since the complexity of vehicle rules has been (mercifully) simplified since then, it doesn't make much sense any more. But it does make for a better game. Perhaps we'll see a new Chimera kit without the lasguns in the future.

I personally hate those ball mount lasguns.. hard to paint, easy to break.

I decided to remove them entirely.. and came up with this.



I have never had an issue with convincing opponents that I could be firing anything out the back of the transport..

(I think that once the lasguns were removed, it became easier to envision other weapons firing out)

That actually looks really cool porkuslime! And you're right, modelled like that it does indeed seem much more viable that a special weapons can get fired out of the sides, whilst heavier armaments get fired out of the top.

L. Wrex

the old Rules for a Chimera allowed For the 6 lasguns to be fired without IUssue, and then you could "pop the top" to fire 2 weapons from the Top Hatch(generally the Special and the heavy), this would then cause the chimera to count as open-topped until your next turn.

the new rules give you a flat 5-guys firing out of the top hatch and remove the situational open-topped vehicle, which basically makes the lasgun Barrels aesthetic-only.

In third and 4th editions models that had "pop-able tops" such as the Chimera and the Rhino; if the transported models had power armor, the vehicle was not considered open-topped(which made the whole mess even more situational, which was a garbage rule and hence dropped).

Yes, you can put lascannons in there.

However, you cant deploy in there, so thats a turn of shooting gone, and after that any shaken or stunned result and you're no longer firing them.

So in the 2 turns you have to shoot at me before im in your lines, at best, youre at BEST only firing for one of them.

Do it if you want. Any IG player wishing to handicap themselves in this way is MORE than welcome to do so....

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yes, you can put lascannons in there.

However, you cant deploy in there, so thats a turn of shooting gone, and after that any shaken or stunned result and you're no longer firing them.

So in the 2 turns you have to shoot at me before im in your lines, at best, youre at BEST only firing for one of them.

Do it if you want. Any IG player wishing to handicap themselves in this way is MORE than welcome to do so....

I don't use this. I won't use this to be honest. It seems to be one of the cheesiest cheese things an IG player could do. You know something a WAAC player might do it. I'm a play to have fun kinda guy,

Kilkrazy wrote:The hatch needed to fire a meltagun or flamer out of a Chimaera would have to be a couple of feet across to allow for the muzzle to be poked out safely and the operator to sight on the target.

Two feet? How do you figure that? I would think that you would just need enough room to stick the gun out and then you could use the periscope sight things to line up your shots. Two feet sounds a bit excessive.

I never put heavies in my chimera as it negates the entire point: movement. I only put things that want to move inside transports. I always imagine that the poor guys inside would have to hold the autocannon or whatever up out of the top hatch. I feel sorry for them, autocannons are heavy.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:You know something a WAAC player might do it.

Oh please. Playing by unambiguously clear rules is not 'something a WAAC player might do.'


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bookwrack wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:You know something a WAAC player might do it.

Oh please. Playing by unambiguously clear rules is not 'something a WAAC player might do.'

Seriously, if they're firing a lascannon, they popped the top hatch and shooting it from there.

I did a similar conversion (a bit more complex but the same idea) for my Chimeras. Really it's not that huge of an advantage. As Nos said, one glancing hit and they're stuck not shooting.

I fit two of my veteran squads with three meltaguns and a missile launcher. It gives me a lot of flexibility for different missions. Most guard players don't do this because they like single purpose squads. But I found giving my vets the ability to sit back and shoot or run forward and melta something works for how I play.

The biggest challenge with line of sight. The rules state that the fire point is the top hatch, but with a standard Chimera you cannot see past the turret from the top hatch.

Now I'll show you a picture of my "Abrams" style turrets, but please don't think I'm a WAAC player. I actually purchased my chimeras used like this. All I did was paint them:

We always just play that the hatch has 360 LOS, but range must be measured from it. It would be pretty easy for someone to lean out a bit to shoot around the turret.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:

Awesome conversion, what did you do for the back?

I forgot all about the hatch. I was thinking the flank mounted lasgusn the whole time. Makes slightly more sense now.

The rules are as clear as day: There are 5 fire points on a Chimera, and you measure range from the hatch behind the turret. LoS issues aside, if I want to run three lascannons in a Chimera and someone doesn't let me, or makes a fuss about it then that's not me being a WAAC player, that's them being unsportsmanlike. There's no bending of the rules, no ambiguous wording, nothing that could conceivably upset ANYONE, at all, considering all you need is to glance or pen the Chimera ONCE and effectively put the guns out of action for a turn at least. Not to mention the Chimera has to remain stationary in order for the guns to shoot, and you can't take advantage of the vehicle's own smoke launchers without again losing a round of shooting.

Really, of all the things one can complain about in the IG codex, this is one of the more asinine ones. Add the cost of a Chimera and a three lascannon HWS: for a few additional points you can put three twin-linked lascannons on a fast skimmer, 12/12/10 chassis. Now that you can complain about to your heart's content.

To hijack my own thread. Whats wrong with the vendetta?
At least it makes more sense then firing lascannons out of a chimera.

Just curious but does it not say someplace in the rules that the model must have the weapon its using on it in order to say you are using said weapon?

Oblivious - the fact is costs next to nothing, is fast so can still move and fire everything, has scout so it can get first turn side armour shots on vehicles, and can carry a cheap scoring unit on board. THey are hideously undercosted (although not as under as the hydra)

In addition: did you not read what I posted? Doing this is a *handicap* to the guard player. Truly a handicap. You are likely to never shoot those lascannon at anything, and at best you miss a crucial first turn shooting. ITs neither "WAAC" or exploitaive, just a bad option all round.

Gen - not sure why youre asking this question, but there is a "WYSIWYG" convention. No relevance to this thread however....