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So this is an anti 'nid list for the Space Wolves. I have always had trouble beating 'Nids and saw this on the excellant 'Beasts Of War' (credit where credits due!). Just wondered what you guys thought of it.

HQ
Rune Preist, Master Of The Runes, Stormcaller and Jaws Of The World Wolf.

Rune Priest, Master Of The Runes, Living Lightning and Jaws Of The World Wolf.

TROOPS
5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun. Vanila Rhino.
5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun. Vanila Rhino.
9 Grey Hunters, 2 Flamers, Pack Leader, Twin Thunder Hammers, Mark Of The Wulfen, Wolf Standard. Vanila Land Raider.

ELITES
6 Wolf Guard, Thunder Hammers and Stormshields. Land Raider Redeemer.

HEAVY SUPPORT
Predator, TwinLinked Lascannon, Sponson Lascannons.

The Rune Priests travel with the Grey Hunters in the Rhinos and use Jaws Of The World Wolf to snipe at lines of big 'Nid beasties. That initiative test is a killer! Because the Priests have Master of the runes, they can both cast two powers a turn, useing living lightning as well as Stormcaller to give either Rhino or even the LR's a 5+ cover save. The Wolf Guard will take just about anything in a straight fight and the Grey Hunters are the same. Rocking up in their 'nila LR and toasting just about everything that gets in their way! The idea is that i can stay mobile and keep out of the way of the nasty anti-psych stuff that the 'Nids can have in their locker. So whatcha all think? Could it really work? Or is it just a dream?
C and C's please folks. I d like to give this sucker a try soon!

Yeah...no, this is no bueno when facing nids.

You have 2 Rune Priests for the price of 3.

You're puttin yourself in mauling range for 1 shot wonders.

Thunderhammer/Storm Shield Wolf Guard are expensive as hell and don't even get the job done

And you have a pack leader with 2 Thunderhammers...

Let's start with what works against Nids:

1) Missile Launchers
2) Lots of tanks
3) Dreadnoughts

You need to incapacitate the big bugs at range before trying to scrap with them. They'll tie you down long enough to bring in little ankle biters and you won't last long with so few bodies.

I'll suggest changes when I get back from lunch.

I find Plasma Guns Work Well. If you are going with Grey Hunters take Full Packs with two Plasma Guns, a MotW and a Power Fist, forget the
Rhino's they are just Rending Fodder.

Good Range, Penatrates all the Nid Armors and Will hurt the High Toughness Models out to 24"

The JOTWW is ok vs the Big Slow Stuff, you the Carnafex and the Caranafex and the Canafex, but Stealers are I7, compleatly usless. I would just go with Njal and a 2nd RP

SS [3++] with the Termies are good, but think about just going with Power Weapons.

YES!!! Missile Launchers/CML Kills Warriors DEAD!!!

ok, cheers guys! Ill work up a new list a post asap....

This is the list I've used to great effect against nids at 1850:

H.Q.

Bjorn
Plasma Cannon -270

Rune Priest
Chooser, Lightning, Hurricane -110

Rune Priest
Chooser, Lightning, Wrath -110

Troops

Grey Hunters 5x
Melta, Lasplas razor -155

Grey Hunters 5x
Melta, Lasplas razor -155

Grey Hunters 5x
Flamer, Lasplas razor -150

Grey Hunters 5x
Flamer, Lasplas razor -150

Fast

Land Speeder Typhoon -90

Land Speeder Typhoon -90

Heavy Support

Long Fangs 5x
2 Missile, 2 Lascannon, Lasplas razor -220

Long Fangs 5x
2 Missile, 2 Plasma Cannon, Lasplas razor -210

Long Fangs 6x
5 Missile -140

Total: 1850

Lots of tanks to deal with. Obscene amounts of shooting to take down big bugs and thin out the ankle biters. Enough mobility to pick and choose assaults, Bjorn to make everyone meaner and powers that can hinder assaulty units and slow down fast flyers.

My only concern is that your GH Pack will not survive any kind of Assualt.
A 20 Model Brood will mostly likly whipe them out without you getting a swing, especialy if they stay mounted.
Personaly what works best for me is Foot or Rhinos with Storm Bolters and HKs.
[Example]
10 Man Grey Hunter Pack
-2x Plasma-Gun
-1x Plasma Pistol
-1x MotW
-1x Power Fist
-If you can a Wolf Guard with a Combi-Plasma

Find some cover 4-6" from the Deployment Zone and Hole Up. Put the Choosers to prevent the Stealers from Infiltrating Close to them. The Bugs should end up the 1st Turn 5-12" from you. Then you Feed them 5 [7] Plasma Shots and 14 Bolt Gun Shots. This should soften them up by 5-12 Models.

This is somthing to think about.
Space Wolves are one of the Most Felxeable Marine Armies out there, But they are not an Shooty Assualt Army. They are IMO the Best Gun Line, with Counter Assualt Army out there.

Nids are an Assualt Army that can shoot at you.

Assume that if you Do not out number them in an Assualt [weither you Assalted are not] you will loose the Assualt.

There is only two units that I have used that has Done in well vs Nids in Assualt.
#1 is a 15 Model Blood Claw Unit Lead by a Wolf Priest and a Wolf Guard.
#2 a Pair Lone Wolves with a SS,CCW and MotW.

Anpu42's advice seems to jive with what I've come across for anti-Tyranid tactics. You pretty much want a lot of bodies, and a whole lot of S7 ranged attacks and S8 melee attacks. As usual, anything with a lower AP than the opponent can handle is preferable. You are going to be dealing with a whole lot of T6 models or a whole load of small bodies. Rate of Fire is fairly important, and the AP2 of the Plasma Gun cancels out FNP and the 3+ save on the Big Bugs (and if the opponent paid 40 points for his Hive Tyrant to have a 2+ save its particularly satisfying when a single 10 point upgrade for your Grey Hunters could make it moot).

At least one Rune Priest is recommended, preferably with Chooser of the Slain, Saga of the Beastslayer, Living Lightning, and Jaws of the World Wolf (can save time dealing with a Tervigon in some match ups). I've had massive success with this myself (being able to throw D6 S7 BS5 shots anywhere on the table with a re-roll to hit is incredibly helpful against T6 creatures). And being able to lock out Genestealer infiltrators is worth 10 points alone for the Chooser so don't feel obliged to put it somewhere with good line of sight.

I really like Dreadnoughts rocking two Twin-Linked Autocannons. Other than looking cool, they can stay far enough back you hopefully won't have to deal with Hive Guard. If the 'Nids took a few of those you may as well kiss your vehicles good bye. You won't get any cover saves and that S8 is more than enough to take 'em out when they get close enough.

Really the thing to remember with 'Nids is to not let them touch you if at all possible. They have too many high initiative nasties that can pick you apart in HTH. I typically load up all the Plasma Guns I can in my Grey Hunter packs (I'm not a fan of Meltaguns personally. I can see the allure but if I'm within 6" for them to be useful someone made a horrible play mistake) but otherwise keep them cheap. 170 points buys you 10 with 2 PGs and 1 Wolf Standard. Tack on another 38 points for a Bolter and Power Fist armed Wolf Guard Pack Leader and you only have to worry about a handful of units. Drop it by 10 points and you have a combi weapon instead of second special weapon and can mount in a Rhino or Drop Pod if you want to make it more of an all-comers list.

If it were me I would take the following instead:


Its only 1747, but you could tack on a naked Rune Priest with Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane/Tempest's Wrath to make it 1847. Just deploy your units close enough to support each other. Annihilation games are straight forward, make a line in the sand and kill everything you can. Capture & Control usually ends up being extra bloody (worse so than Annihilation given it forces your hand) and Seize Ground is probably the easiest to win.

Just as a recap cause this was kind of long: high strength no save is required; preferably from a distance and in high volume. 'Nids have a lot of extremely deadly high-initiative nasties that are next to useless in the shooting phase (read: they will be running for you usually). You need to be flexible enough to handle the theats the 'Nid player throws at you as they come and expect to lose quite a few models. Just keep your units supporting one another and you'll be okay.

cowmonaut wrote:Anpu42's advice seems to jive with what I've come across for anti-Tyranid tactics. You pretty much want a lot of bodies, and a whole lot of S7 ranged attacks and S8 melee attacks. As usual, anything with a lower AP than the opponent can handle is preferable. You are going to be dealing with a whole lot of T6 models or a whole load of small bodies. Rate of Fire is fairly important, and the AP2 of the Plasma Gun cancels out FNP and the 3+ save on the Big Bugs (and if the opponent paid 40 points for his Hive Tyrant to have a 2+ save its particularly satisfying when a single 10 point upgrade for your Grey Hunters could make it moot).

At least one Rune Priest is recommended, preferably with Chooser of the Slain, Saga of the Beastslayer, Living Lightning, and Jaws of the World Wolf (can save time dealing with a Tervigon in some match ups). I've had massive success with this myself (being able to throw D6 S7 BS5 shots anywhere on the table with a re-roll to hit is incredibly helpful against T6 creatures). And being able to lock out Genestealer infiltrators is worth 10 points alone for the Chooser so don't feel obliged to put it somewhere with good line of sight.

I really like Dreadnoughts rocking two Twin-Linked Autocannons. Other than looking cool, they can stay far enough back you hopefully won't have to deal with Hive Guard. If the 'Nids took a few of those you may as well kiss your vehicles good bye. You won't get any cover saves and that S8 is more than enough to take 'em out when they get close enough.

Really the thing to remember with 'Nids is to not let them touch you if at all possible. They have too many high initiative nasties that can pick you apart in HTH. I typically load up all the Plasma Guns I can in my Grey Hunter packs (I'm not a fan of Meltaguns personally. I can see the allure but if I'm within 6" for them to be useful someone made a horrible play mistake) but otherwise keep them cheap. 170 points buys you 10 with 2 PGs and 1 Wolf Standard. Tack on another 38 points for a Bolter and Power Fist armed Wolf Guard Pack Leader and you only have to worry about a handful of units. Drop it by 10 points and you have a combi weapon instead of second special weapon and can mount in a Rhino or Drop Pod if you want to make it more of an all-comers list.

If it were me I would take the following instead:

Spoiler:

-= HQ =-
Wolf Lord - 205 pts
Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Saga of the Bear

Rune Priest - 120 pts
Living Lightning, Jaws of the World Wolf, Chooser of the Slain, Saga of the Beastslayer

-=ELITE=-

Wolf Guard* - 152 pts
4 w/ Bolter, Power Fist

Lone Wolf - 60 pts
Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield

Lone Wolf - 60 pts
Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield

-= TROOP =-
Grey Hunter Pack - 170 pts
10 w/ 2 PG, Wolf Standard

Grey Hunter Pack - 170 pts
10 w/ 2 PG, Wolf Standard

Grey Hunter Pack - 170 pts
10 w/ 2 PG, Wolf Standard

Grey Hunter Pack - 170 pts
10 w/ 2 PG, Wolf Standard

-= HEAVY SUPPORT =-
Long Fang Pack - 160 pts
6 w/ 2 Heavy Bolter, 1 Missile Launcher, 2 Lascannons

Long Fang Pack - 160 pts
6 w/ 2 Heavy Bolter, 1 Missile Launcher, 2 Lascannons

Long Fang Pack - 150 pts
6 w/ 2 Heavy Bolter, 1 Missile Launcher, 2 Plasma Cannons

Its only 1747, but you could tack on a naked Rune Priest with Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane/Tempest's Wrath to make it 1847. Just deploy your units close enough to support each other. Annihilation games are straight forward, make a line in the sand and kill everything you can. Capture & Control usually ends up being extra bloody (worse so than Annihilation given it forces your hand) and Seize Ground is probably the easiest to win.

Just as a recap cause this was kind of long: high strength no save is required; preferably from a distance and in high volume. 'Nids have a lot of extremely deadly high-initiative nasties that are next to useless in the shooting phase (read: they will be running for you usually). You need to be flexible enough to handle the theats the 'Nid player throws at you as they come and expect to lose quite a few models. Just keep your units supporting one another and you'll be okay.

The main reason Anpu's advise is right on is because it comes from practical experiance, his Wolves have been fighting my 'Nids off & on for close to two years now.
See all those loses my 'Nids have Anpu's given me every one and a whole lot more.
cowmonaut as for your list I've only got one sugestion trade JOTWW for Murderous Hurricane and upgrade to him to a Master of Runes.

The Fox Lord wrote:
cowmonaut as for your list I've only got one sugestion trade JOTWW for Murderous Hurricane and upgrade to him to a Master of Runes.

Murderous Hurricane is nice against hordes but In my practical experience against 'Nids its not as nice as it is against Orks. I'd rather keep JOTWW for the emergency punch. I'm usually using LL every turn with my Rune Priest. Master of Runes would be a waste of 50 points since you can still only use one shooting attack and the Rune Priest is not going to have much luck with his Runic Weapon in HTH against the 'Nid multi-wound models so using its Force Weapon powers is moot.

Really I only ever take Master of Runes if I'm taking LL and Storm Caller / Tempest's Wrath, and even then rarely. 50 points is just a bit steep given how many of the psychic powers are shooting attacks.

@cowmonaut: Fair enough

best weapon i find for killiing Nids is missile launchers, unit of 10 SW with missile launcher, MotW looks like a good idea to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also Jaws of the World Wolf seems a bad idea as don't most Nids monstrous creatures have a high I, or is tht just me?

I always take the following which are good vs Tyranids.

Rune Priest with Choose of the Slain, Living Lightning and Jaws of the Warp Wolf.

Choose of the Slain is important to force their infiltrating stealers back. Jaws of the Warp Wolf kills tervigons, carnifexes and tyranofexes quickly. Jaws of the War wolf is decent against hive guard if you have no more more low init targets.

Additional Rune priests with jaws of the warp wolf and an extra chooser of the slain are good if you can afford them.

Grey Hunters - if your tailoring against tyranids you probably want a squad just like Anpu42 said except I would go with 9 with plasmas, wolf standard, mark in a Rhino joined by a Wolfguard with fist and combi plasma. You want a 2 attack fist in case a monster gets you in combat. It shouldn't but sometimes it happens. Hug cover or your Rhino wreck if possible since Genestealers don't have grenades between the counter attack and wolf standard you should do alright once the stealers are widdle down a bit from bolter fire since you did force them back with choosers of the slain.

3xLong Fangs with 4-5 Missles in a Lascannon / TL Plasma Gun Razorback. Provides support fire for killing monsters quickly.

Avariel wrote:Hug cover or your Rhino wreck if possible since Genestealers don't have grenades between the counter attack and wolf standard you should do alright once the stealers are widdle down a bit from bolter fire since you did force them back with choosers of the slain.

That bit is probably some of the biggest overlooked advice. Unless the unit has Lash Whips (or is a Carnifex with Frag Spines), the 'Nids just don't have anything for assaulting in cover. If you can force them to make a difficult terrain test when charging you, you'll be able to strike first. This can make all the difference given their lower armor saves.

Just a heads up, look out for outflanking gaunts. Some may argue agaisnt this but when your heavy hitters are up front and a brood outflanks and catches your long fangs you'll see what I mean. Any rhinos you take you WILL lose, thanks to hive guard and zoanthropes. Speaking of zoans, be careful with land raider as some players put their zoans in a spore and drop right next to one.

Why would you even consider double psyker against nids? I would only go with 1 rune priest with the following kit

Runic Armor, Chooser, LL and JOTWW and stick him with either a group of Grey Hunters or a Long Fangs pack outfitted with either Missile Launchers, Heavy Bolters or Plasma Cannons depending on what you are using them for.

I would go with the Long Fangs simply because you can then use the firing command to snipe out fexes or trygons
with jaws or to take out hordes with LL and then you can use the fangs to take out hordes or a different MC.

Your list doesnt have enough multishooting to take out the number of nids you will be facing.

Piroko wrote:Why would you even consider double psyker against nids? I would only go with 1 rune priest with the following kit

Runic Armor, Chooser, LL and JOTWW and stick him with either a group of Grey Hunters or a Long Fangs pack outfitted with either Missile Launchers, Heavy Bolters or Plasma Cannons depending on what you are using them for.

I would go with the Long Fangs simply because you can then use the firing command to snipe out fexes or trygons
with jaws or to take out hordes with LL and then you can use the fangs to take out hordes or a different MC.

Your list doesnt have enough multishooting to take out the number of nids you will be facing.

I'd argue that LL is excellent against T6 models and mediocre against hordes. He'd be better off using Murderous Hurricane against a horde.

Also, being a psyker only becomes a problem if you are within 12" of a Synapse creature. You can usually get 2-3 turns before that's the case depending how you use your psykers, the the 24+ nullification of enemy powers on a 4+ is fairly nice. Really, Rune Priests are nice force multipliers and I think they're more useful than other HQ choices against 'Nids. Plus having just one psyker means you're getting hit by Death Leaper's Ld penalty if they take him.

This is a basic for my Anit-Nid List

Njal [TTDA] with Long Fangs [ML x3, HB x2] and a Cylone Armred Wolf Guard

4x 10 Model Grey Hunter Packs with 1 PF, 1 PP and 2 PG lead by Wolf Guard.

1x Bloood Claw Pack, PW, 2 Flamer, lead by a Wolf Guard and a Wolf Priest.

Long Fangs [5x ML]

It does well [Unless Njal on turn 1 roll 12 on his Psychic Test followed by a 2 on the next turn]