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Ok I am getting ready to start grey knights and want to ask a question what troops are better strike squads or grey knight termies i am sure some people would love to know it is just that it is hard to get termies into combat were there beast.

You need to break your sentances into several smaler once. (I do not care about the typos as I read "dysletic".)

To awser you, I do not know what is best. It depends if you are going for survivabilaty (temrinators) or psycannons (strike squads.) Both are good.

I do not think terminators are best in CC. Terminators are good over all, but moastly because they are so good vs autocannons and missiles. also, they are rerentles so they can move and shoot.

You can get a strike squad with a cannon and a HB razorback with boosted ammo for 160 pts. You can get a termie squad with 1 cannon and nothing else other than the free weapon upgrades for 225. One with fail its armor saves more often, and has no chance of surviving AP shots when in the open. The other is twice as survivable against non AP, and has a decent chance of surviving even AP1-2 shots out in the open. So the question is: Is it worth the extra points to lose the mobility options of the strike squad, the warpquake ability, and the extra supplemental fire power of the razorback (or protection of the rhino) to be survivable when trying to walk across the board? The answer of course depends on list an theme. I chose the strike squads, most of the internet seems to have chosen the "crowe" option, and one guy locally has gone the "Draigo" route. Nobody I know is running the termies as troops, but that doesn't make them a bad option.

Witch one has more cc potential?

The termies obviously for CC. They have 2 attacks base and can get halberds or hammers for free. SS arent bad in CC but their 1A and expensive weapons hurt them

I actually go the Terminator as troops route. I did it only to keep with the fluff in the beginning, but I have found I like it. When it comes down to pure CC numbers, terminators do have Strikers beat with +1 attack and free upgrade to halberds or hammer.

I run x2, 6 Term squads: One is with Psycannon only upgrade and tend to be deep striking foot sloggers. The other unit stays with my Chapter Master/Librarian. I upgrade one of them with the Banner. Those guys are a blender unit, and usually get into the thick of it since I put them in a Storm Raven.

I think it ultimately comes down to taste. I tend to make my power armor GK Interceptors, so i would have to do a lot more modding and/or buying of troops to make Strike Squads.

notabot187 wrote:You can get a strike squad with a cannon and a HB razorback with boosted ammo for 160 pts.

I wish i could convince myself to go down that route, but I always feel i need to give my Razorback a TL Las for anti armor as I have anti infantry in spades. However as you said this does make it very cost effective.

It honestly does matter what the rest of your list looks like and the other armies you face.

If you don't use interceptors, you need at least 2 strike squads. Warp quake is such an amazing ability against deep strikers that I think GK players would be foolish not to include at least a few units that carry it. Strike squads need transports to be at their best, so rhinos or razorbacks are important.

If you want to run super powered deathstar units, play Draigo paladins. They work equally well as 10 man walking units and 5-6 man units in a land raider or storm raven. Durable as hell, excellent shooting and they will stomp on just about any unit they come across in close combat. This will be cheapest army you can make as GK.

If you want jack of all trade troops that are excellent in every role, run purifiers. Whether you outfit them for shooting, close combat, or both, they will perform incredibly well. I think most GK players will be running at least a few units of these guys given how effective they are. Trouble is that they require crowe, a difficult to use and lackluster HQ unit, in order to unlock as troops. If you aren't confident in your skills at using a solo infantry model that doesn't get IC, he can be a liability. These guys also require transports to function best, so rhinos and razorbacks will be needed.

Henchmen can do just about anything if you set them up properly. They are cheap and plentiful, so if you want lots and lots of tanks and guys, this is the way to go. Coteaz is an awesome HQ, and the henchmen themselves can be geared to fight anything you want them to. Shooting henchmen operate just like cheap mechvet IG squads, so if you know them you know these guys. Assault henchmen can outfight other GK units and are actually very survivable to boot. Overall very versatile and low point cost units. Just don't expect them to live as long as the marines or terminators, because they definitely won't.

Finally, terminators. The short story is don't take these guys as your main troop choice. The only reason for that is cost and transport. While they are actually amazing at shooting and assault, it can be tough keeping them alive without big units or expensive transports. You get more buck for your buck out of paladins if you want to run big units, and you will simply get more guys with the same kind of shooting if you run strike squads or purifiers. Having said, that, I run a unit of 10 of these guys as fire support and counter chargers, and I love them. But I would never include more than 1 unit.

Summary is: include at least 2 units of either interceptors or strike squads to get warp quake. Don't focus on regular terminators for troops. The rest is pretty much up to you.

Korcheski wrote:

notabot187 wrote:You can get a strike squad with a cannon and a HB razorback with boosted ammo for 160 pts.

I wish i could convince myself to go down that route, but I always feel i need to give my Razorback a TL Las for anti armor as I have anti infantry in spades. However as you said this does make it very cost effective.

The S6 HB isn't just anti infantry. S6 is anti transport and light vehicle. Just ask eldar (or guard for that matter). S6 shooting is flexible, you aren't wasting S on shooting infantry, and you can damage most light vehicles with it.

So I think grey knight strike squads it is.

Just played my first game last night against Space Puppies. As much as I hate being trendy, I ran Crowe with a few squads of Purifiers as troops. Total troops were 5xTerminators(psycannon), 5xPurifiers(2xpsycannon), 5xPurifiers(2xpsycannon), 5xStrike. I also ran a 6xInterceptor. The Purifiers were in lasorbacks, Termies were in a LRC, and the Strike was in a Rhino.

Overall thoughts are that, as frustrating as it might be, Purifiers are a no-brainer. The Terminators also did amazingly in melee, dropping a 10-strong squad. I'm kind of a stranger to the SW codex, but I think they were Grey Hunters. Nemesis Warding Stave is a must, doubly so for Termies because you need to protect your investment. With it and two swords, I was able to save all the power weapon/fist attacks and not lose a guy in the combat.

Termies would be an always take for me if I weren't so concerned about delivery. Deep striking next to the enemy doesn't work, and 200+ points per squad for transport makes an expensive unit still more situational. I haven't actually used the Paladins yet, but I have to imagine that they'd have a lot of the same problems.

Overall, if I had to give each of the Troops a rating, I'd go with the following:

Purifiers: A
These guys are incredible. I wish they weren't so crazy awesome so that I'd actually feel like taking something else. Their only real weakness that I can see is that they require a 150 lame duck to pull off.
Terminators: B
They really should have a transport. Great in melee, but without the 3++ all other SM enjoy on their Terminators, they can't really afford to remain exposed any longer than they have to be.
Strikes: B
Kind of lackluster compared to the Purifiers, but a little cheaper, no hangers on (like Crowe), and the ability to take Razorbacks make these guys a decent option. I think these guys are going to be the ones who sit on my homecourt objective with a psycannon and razorback.
Paladins: C
To be fair, I've not used them yet, but they require 275 points of HQ for an expensive terminator that still crumples to S8. If you're taking these guys as troops, then you have a VERY low model count. I suspect that you'll either need to DS or use Stormravens as transport, which means if your transport gets popped first turn, you're walking to the enemy.

Inquisitorial Henchmen: N/A
I didn't want to rate these guys because they almost deserve an entire discussion all on their own. They're kind of the swiss army knife of the GK codex. Honestly, I think they could be overwhelmingly powerful even without Coteaz. For 155 points, you can have a S10 AP1 large blast that fires out the back of a chimera. There's a lot of stuff you can do here.

That's just my two cents though.

As for the heavy bolter razor back w/ Psybolts. What are everyone's thoughts with a storm bolter also added?

It's total at 60 for 3x TL S6 + 2 S5. The thought is, for 10 pts, you get 2 S5 shots. I think it's good for a strike squad for DS distuption duty.

The same goes for psybolts on a Rhino w/ bonus storm bolter.
It could add a little more fire power to Purfiier list.
For Purifier in rhino, 4xs5 + 2 Psycannons out of the top hatch?
55 pts so 4 S5 shots.

I bring it up for troop augmentation, since we are on the subject.

I don't know. I really feel like the army has enough AP4/5 running around. It would be nice if we could only put psycannons on Razorbacks, but that hardly matters at this point. Personally I'd rather have Lascannons on my Razors.

To those who fear walking their terminators, I've run a squad of 10 on foot for the last 7 games and I have yet to lose the entire unit.

With a shrouding librarian and some cover, these guys are ridiculously tough to kill. I run them 1 of 2 ways but both require that they have constant cover in order to survive.

Option A is 'bunker of doom'. Sit them on an objective in cover and be secure in the knowledge that pretty much nothing will be able to remove them. Shroud and sanctuary from the librarian means that it will be incredibly difficult to shoot them, and downright painful to attempt an assault.

Option B, and my favorite, is the 'stealth spearhead'. Stick them in the middle or safe flank of a 3-5 tank armored spearhead, with a dread following immediately behind. Pop smoke on the lead tank or whichever is at highest risk, and alternate tanks to the front to get fresh smoke every turn if possible. The entire convoy should have +3 cover, even out in the open, and has deadly firepower from the dred and terminators. The tanks are close enough to the librarian to benefit from sanctuary, making them difficult to assault, and a counter-charge from the terminators should wipe out the offending unit anyways.

Footslogging GK infantry are difficult to use but incredibly fun and rewarding to play.

Bruteboss has some good advice going.

my vote is for terminators.

I play a competitive game, and I immediately started making lists with crowe and purifier troops and also making coteaz with henchman troops. Both of those options can be made to be very good.

But I recently jumped up to 2000 points, and I didn't want to just add a 6th dread and call it done. I knew that 4x5 purifiers were probably not quite enough scoring when you are facing 2k points worth of shooting, and so i removed a purifer squad, kept crowe but added a grand master and one terminator squad.

I used the terminator squad as a walking firebase, It may be good in CC against many targets, but I was playing against IG and you HAVE to remember that GK termies can not repel special weapon spam. You have to stay back off of large concentrations of specials, just pump psycannon shots into their transport, and know that you are really hard to kill from range.

I really liked that grand strategy gave me more scoring only when I actually wanted it (which is only 1/3rd of the time) rather than having to buy more troops (or forced to buy crowe to get a larger concentration of troops that I actually really like). So with this in mind, when walked my list back down to 1500, I realized that I could just run 2x5 termies and a grand master, and I'd be very comfortable with that amount of scoring (between 3-5 units) for that game size.

So my list turned into 3 dreads, 3 purifiers, 2 termies, grand master, and I am really happy with it.

From what I have been hearing about peoples reactions to strike squads, the single attack in CC is frustrating when coupled with WS4, and CC is the only time to cash in on their hammerhand power, and warp quake swings from ridiculously good in 10% of your games, to completely useless in the other 90%. The smart use of the strike squad is to buy a psybolt razorback with them, and get out and shoot your storm bolters and psycannon at targets of opportunity. Special CC weapons (the things that make you beat grey hunters and blood angels) are too expensive on them, especially considering that they only generate one attack each. 160 points for 5 guys with one psycannon and a psybolt bolterback isn't a terrible investment. its on par with other razorback spam units. but when you compare the opportunity cost of a terminator squad or a purifier squad, both of which have two attacks base, and cheap or free halberds, and both of which have either two psycannons per unit, or a move and shoot 4 psycannon that doesn't remove the nemesis weapon when taken, then the strike squad is just not that great. IMO of course.

Hey Shep, kinda off topic, but what do you think of Interceptors? Would you take halibreds or other upgrade weapons for them?

I think people shy away from termies, mostly because they're frightened of having even fewer troops for an already expensive codex. I believe BOW on youtube said it best during Grey Knights week in the infantry discussion when they said "Strike Squads are expensive for standard marines on a per model basis...Termies are cheap in comparison and will give you more bang for your buck."

That said, I believe that sheps list represents what most Grey Knights armies should be, which is a mix.

I have to say that I'm surprised by the lack of Terminator love. People can field an all Terminator list that doesn't revolve around a particular HQ choice and the actual units themselves are damn flexibile. Stormbolters (w/o Psybolts) and Psycannons will keep your opponent honest if they try to keep away from you and it gives you something to fire when you land from Deepstriking in. Free Halberds with a DH mixed in for the big nasties is a great all purpose squad and coming in at right around the same price as a Rhino mounted Tactical squad would be. Cover saves are still fairly easy to get, to help compensate for the lack of 3++ SS and this time you're getting Terminators with Grenades so you don't need to rely on LRC for assaulting.

Whats not to love really?

daedalus wrote:Hey Shep, kinda off topic, but what do you think of Interceptors? Would you take halibreds or other upgrade weapons for them?

Well, interceptors are strike squads that trade their innate scoring ability and 30 points for the jumping and shunting. Not only that but they trade access to the rhino and razorback, which as we all know, in our 5th edition of the game, is a big sacrifice.

They move fast, which most of the time I don't really need when I've been playing GK. They aren't choppy enough to step into 'real' assaults, much like assault marines. They can scout-shunt which I was initially interested in, until I actually built lists with the grand master. Once I got my hands on grand strategy, I realized that one of its most powerful assets was for a Gk player to run one or two less troops choices than they ordinarily would. Which, if you think about it, actually helps alleviate tons of the problems surrounding their expensive points cost. So, when you pull a 4-5 objective seize ground, you're going to use grand strategy to create more scoring units, not to scout-shunt. If scout-shunt was the trick that you bought the interceptors for, then you won't be using it in 1/3 games. If you bought a ton of troops, and a grand master AND interceptors, well, then you are doing it wrong.

So I like interceptors about as much as I like strike squads. Which is to say that I am not offended by them, they don't give me goosebumps on either side of the table, but they are not "bad" units. One might say, "just take a strike squad in a rhino instead" and they are almost entirely correct, except that with proper use of a grand master, you can run your interceptors as scoring when needed and then scout-shunt the rest of the time. That makes them "just as good" as strikes. Just don't take them at all if you don't have a grand master.

the answer is Purifiers

I have a test list (witch is in a separate thread) that has 2 squads of termies in two storm ravens with brother captain its 1000 pts. I am probably going wit it.

I think Strike Squads most certainly have their place.

To me, they fill many of the same roles Standard Tactical Marines do, except they all have Storm Bolters and can take two of the same "special" weapon at ten guys.

I think you trade a little killy for pure numbers and survivability when you talk about strikes. The way I look at them, in comparison to Purifiers, is a 20 point model versus a 26 point model. A Purifier, you are almost always going to take the Halberd because of the point break, and when you talk about strikes, you are almost never taking any cc weapons because of their limited attacks.

The Core of most Grey Knight lists I have been building right now (outside of Crowe/Coteaz builds) usually have the following:

10 Strikes w/ 2 Psycannons, Justicar w/ MC Deamonhammer in Rhino = 270

10 Strikes w/ 2 Psycannons, Justicar w/ MC Deamonhammer in Rhino = 270

5 Purifiers w/ 2 Psycannons, 3 Halberds in Rhino = 186

5 Purifiers w/ 2 Psycannons, 3 Halberds in Rhino = 186


912 Points for 30 Marines, 8 Psycannons, and 4 Transports.


Compared to a similar Crowe core:

Crowe = 150

5 Purifiers w/ 2 Psycannons, 3 Halberds in Rhino = 186

5 Purifiers w/ 2 Psycannons, 3 Halberds in Rhino = 186

5 Purifiers w/ 2 Psycannons, 3 Halberds in Rhino = 186

5 Purifiers w/ 2 Psycannons, 3 Halberds in Rhino = 186


894 points. Same amount of fire power, same amount of AV Target Saturation, Crowe (an HQ that rarely will find a use and is a victum to a good round of shooting) and 10 less bodies. With Combat Squading, I can also have the same amount of scoring units.


Granted, the Purifiers are better when they get into the thick of assaults but I may be crazy, but I think Grey Knights are not really an assault army. I think they prefer sitting in the middle of the table shooting the crap out of things, and only committing to assaults when they have too. I think strikes can play that pivotal role of holding an assault up long enough to have a counter assault element bail them out. And really, when you talk about the strike/purifier comparison, IMHO, the Purifiers are only slightly better in assault versus strikes. Speaking from a stand point of the types of armies you will be facing, Cleansing Flame can be a crap shoot because you have to get by psychic defense, and Halberds will cause their damage, but the same things that kill marines in assault will have no more difficultly doing the same to purifiers, especially elite units with good saves. Purifiers get no better weapon skill, and their only real claim to fame is an extra attack.

I am trying not to dog on Purifiers. I still think they are a fantastic unit. Their basic stat line, double the availability to Psycannons, cheap weapon upgrades, and a better psychic power is all to be considered, even fearless. Most Grey Knight lists will have them represented some way.

My only argument is to actually take into consideration the (relatively speaking) cheapness of the Strike Squad. They require no Special Character to make them troops, and brings resilience to an army that is very prone to field multiple small units of expensive "no-better-than-marines-to-shooting" units. You can build a lot of competitive lists of strikes that require no special characters, and considering how competitive the HQ slot is in that codex, it is something worth considering when you talk about all the options that codex has to offer.

Cool breakdown Mahu. :-) While I am going gaga over the purifiers like everybody else I am reluctant to bring few bodies on the table. GK needs bodies.

Your math is a bit of if you want as many psycannons as posible since you have not included an HQ in the original list (say you want to spend all points on psycannons.)

However, if people want to continue in that direction they can instead take purgatories (?) who get 4 psycannons and a rhino for 220.

I would like to se somebody coming up with something good to do with my terminators. I love the model (yeah!) but all over dakka people are complaining that they are vorse then a similar unit of strikes.

A trick I saw hulksmash do here on dakka is taking 10 purifers, combat squading them and take a strike squad of 5 with a rhino. Now you deepstrike the strike squad and you start the turn by putting the 5 foot purfiers in the strike rhino.

My answer is simple

10 man terminator squad with incinerators and Halberds, MC daemonhammer and Psybolt ammo.

Kills all known Nids. Fact.

Also hurts everything else really bad.

Kaptin Grigger wrote:My answer is simple

10 man terminator squad with incinerators and Halberds, MC daemonhammer and Psybolt ammo.

Kills all known Nids. Fact.

Also hurts everything else really bad.

Unless of course, they use shrikes. At which point, they stay out of incinerator range, then charge in with ease, cripple your halbreds with lash ships, and force you to take many many 5+ saves from boneswords

Niiai wrote:
A trick I saw hulksmash do here on dakka is taking 10 purifers, combat squading them and take a strike squad of 5 with a rhino. Now you deepstrike the strike squad and you start the turn by putting the 5 foot purfiers in the strike rhino.

What rule is it that I keep missing that lets you deepstrike Strike Squads?

What do people think of strike squads in storm ravens?

Niiai wrote:Cool breakdown Mahu. :-) While I am going gaga over the purifiers like everybody else I am reluctant to bring few bodies on the table. GK needs bodies.

Your math is a bit of if you want as many psycannons as posible since you have not included an HQ in the original list (say you want to spend all points on psycannons.)

However, if people want to continue in that direction they can instead take purgatories (?) who get 4 psycannons and a rhino for 220.

I would like to se somebody coming up with something good to do with my terminators. I love the model (yeah!) but all over dakka people are complaining that they are vorse then a similar unit of strikes.

A trick I saw hulksmash do here on dakka is taking 10 purifers, combat squading them and take a strike squad of 5 with a rhino. Now you deepstrike the strike squad and you start the turn by putting the 5 foot purfiers in the strike rhino.

I didn't include the HQ in the strike core because the way I look at it, Crowe is a tax. I don't think he is completely worthless, but he will usually offer so little at the higher competitive level, you might as well consider the points you spend on him and the HQ slot he takes as a necessary tax to get the Purifier heavy army on the table.

Again, I still consider that army build type an extremely competitive one. But I would also argue, that considering Crowe's price tag, and the increased cost of purifiers compared to strikes, that strikes have their place and can form a pretty solid back bone of different army builds.

I essentially see the troop break downs like this:

Strikes = Moderately good troop choice that brings durable numbers.
Terminators = Moderately durable assault unit that can provide decent fire support and a place to put Terminator Characters
Paladins = Expensive and Situationally durable assault unit that requires a character to unlock them. However, said character is probably the best assault character in the book, and can use his stats to increase the survivability of the Paladins. However that combination can get extremely expensive quickly.
=][= Henchmen = Requires an inexpensive and fairly good HQ choice to unlock. Trades Durability for special and heavy weapons rarely seen in the codex, and can produce a heavy MSU spam list.
Purifiers = Strong Elite infantry with a better stat line, shooting options, and combat prowess, however, no more survivable then Strikes and requires an expensive, close to worthless non-ic character.

Most Grey Knight builds will revolve around your HQ choices. The librarian is too good not to take, and in that respect, the Grey Knights start to fall into the same types of build options the Space Marine Codex does. Essentially, Librarian + X HQ leads to Y type army list. However, the builds are much more varied then the Space Marine Codex because characters like Grand Masters can effect all sorts of different builds. I think Crowe makes an excellent list despite his stats, Coteaz makes a very different kind of list. And Grey Knight non-special character lists are also something else entirely. Heck, even a Modrak lead alpha strike army has potential.

Like any other codex, it really comes down to what you want to play.

daedalus wrote:

Niiai wrote:
A trick I saw hulksmash do here on dakka is taking 10 purifers, combat squading them and take a strike squad of 5 with a rhino. Now you deepstrike the strike squad and you start the turn by putting the 5 foot purfiers in the strike rhino.

What rule is it that I keep missing that lets you deepstrike Strike Squads?

The codex entry... PG 91, under special rules, second from the bottom, above preferred enemy (daemons).

Ah, the actual Deep Strike rule. Cleverly hidden in the open in the special abilities sections.

Mahu, I do not know. I would not take a stormr aven to get crove to work, but getting a deepstriking strike squad and giving the rhino to crove for 150 points is not so bad. so that is a 300 point tax.

Compare him to the one assassin, I think it is a good comparison.