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HQ
1 Sorcerer, IoS, Lash 125p.
1 Sorcerer, IoS, Lash 125p.

Elites
1 Dreadnought, Autocannon, Heavy Flamer 130p.

Heavy Support
3 Obliterators 225p.
3 Obliterators 225p.
3 Obliterators 225p.

Troops
7 Plague Marines, 2 Plasma Guns 191p.
1 Rhino, Extra Armour 50p.
7 Plague Marines, 2 Plasma Guns 191p.
1 Rhino, Extra Armour 50p.
7 Plague Marines, 2 Melta Guns 181p.
1 Rhino, Extra Armour 50p.
7 Plague Marines, 2 Melta Guns 181p.
1 Rhino, Extra Armour 50p.

Grand Total= 1999points

Do you think that it's better to deploy Oblits normally or should I keep them in reserve???
Anyway the Sorcerers go with Plague Marines...

Comment please...

MrPhok wrote:HQ
1 Sorcerer, IoS, Lash 125p.
1 Sorcerer, IoS, Lash 125p.

These are good but honestly rarely no you see non mech armies


Elites
1 Dreadnought, Autocannon, Heavy Flamer 130p.

Drop the Dread they are more trouble then they are worth

Heavy Support
3 Obliterators 225p.
3 Obliterators 225p.
3 Obliterators 225p.

I like to deploy 2 squads and Deep strike one of mine.

Troops
7 Plague Marines, 2 Plasma Guns 191p.
1 Rhino, Extra Armour 50p.
7 Plague Marines, 2 Plasma Guns 191p.
1 Rhino, Extra Armour 50p.
7 Plague Marines, 2 Melta Guns 181p.
1 Rhino, Extra Armour 50p.
7 Plague Marines, 2 Melta Guns 181p.
1 Rhino, Extra Armour 50p.

I would add Power fists you need the dread defense.

Grand Total= 1999points

Do you think that it's better to deploy Oblits normally or should I keep them in reserve???
Anyway the Sorcerers go with Plague Marines...

Comment please...

HQ
1 Sorcerer, IoS, Lash 125p.
1 Sorcerer, IoS, Lash 125p.

Heavy Support
3 Obliterators 225p.
3 Obliterators 225p.
3 Obliterators 225p.

Troops
7 Plague Marines, 2 Plasma Guns Champ Power fist 231p.
1 Rhino, Extra Armour 50p.
7 Plague Marines, 2 Plasma Guns Champ Power fist 231p.
1 Rhino, Extra Armour 50p.
7 Plague Marines, 2 Melta Guns champ power fist 221p.
1 Rhino 35p.
7 Plague Marines, 2 Melta Guns champ power fist 221p.
1 Rhino 35p

Grand Total= 1999points

yes but this champion is really expensive for what he gives you.I don't really need him plus dreadnought gives me supporting fire which I don't wanna lose.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I had thought of using a Daemon prince but as he cannot been deployed with a unit he can be easily killed

Why not go with the DP? give him wings and MoS with lash, fly him forward, rhinos going full speed behind him, popping smoke when necessary. Lash heavy weps or ne thing you want to move, the other player shoots half his army at DP to kill it, meanwhile oblits pound any tanks with las, DS one squad if you want one squad to help, then have rhinos either rush obj or go for the infranrty, since they have plasma and T5, they should win in a straight up shootout.

Btw the champions arent necessary (unless you RLY want that power fist), they take up points b/c only thing they do is make squad Ld 10 (fearless ne way) and add an extra attack.

-cheers

My first list used 2 Daemon princes, but I was told that they will easily die as they cannot be hidden with a unit.
Though if I take 2 Princes I will have to remake the list to fit their points(they will be more expensive than the sorcerers!!!). But if you think they're better, it's ok, haven't bought them yet. Since I've made many wrong choices I wanna be sure with whtaever i buy.

You definately don't want Champions as they're a waste of points unless taking a Greater Daemon.

What I would do in consider do you need two Sorcerors or the single Dreadnought, reason is the single Dreadnought is just asking for it so I'd take two for multiple target reasons and add a missile launcher instead

I'd drop the Dreadnought, but not because there is a risk of it opening up on the back armor of your Rhinos. Its just largely redundant. The Obliterators put out an absurd amount of firepower. I'd Deep Strike one unit for some point blank Multi-Melta fun and the rest can just walk up the board.

I'd consider your HQ choices personally, but then I tend to inject fluff into my army lists when I can (and some Sorcerers of Slaanesh leading what is basically a Death Guard army just is weird). But I get why you're wanting to take Lash. Just don't get so enamored by psychic powers you forget to look at the Chaos Lord! They are incredibly powerful when used right (and Daemon Weapons are fun).

Two winged Daemon Princes wouldn't be bad though, really. With Lash you'll be forcing heavy weapons to move and you can use them to screen your Rhinos (or vice versa). Troops are central to the game now and the longer you can keep them in top condition the better. Doesn't matter if your Daemon Princes live or not so long as they earn their points back.

I also personally prefer Plasma over Melta but your Troops are solid. Plaguemarines are incredible, but if you get it by a Dreadnought or other walker in HTH you are going to have some trouble. You'll only have Krak grenades that can hurt that AV12 (and even then only glance it) but they'll hit on 6's until you immobilize them. You either need to through Power Fists in the squads to cover all your bases or you should reconsider taking Daemon Princes. That 2D6 for Armour Penetration and the mobility from Wings will help you immensely.

You're right.
What should I do with the points of my dreadnought???
If I get rid of it I while have some more pts to spend.
And yes I prefer Plasma Guns!!!

replace the sorcerers with daemon prince and give them wings and lash, with any luck can assault 1st turn so can't be shot up easily. Also don't PM need power fists to help kill larger stuff, and with I3 it doesn't make much difference surely?

thx all of you.
I'll post a new list taking in mind your comments.

1 Demon Prince, LoS, Wings, MoS 155
1 Demon Prince, LoS, Wings, MoS 155

Elites
1 Dreadnought, Twin Linked Lascannon, Missile Launcher 125

Heavy Support
3 Obliterators 225p.
3 Obliterators 225p.
3 Obliterators 225p.

Troops
7 Plague Marines, 2 Plasma Guns 191p.
1 Rhino, 35
7 Plague Marines, 2 Plasma Guns 191p.
1 Rhino, 35
7 Plague Marines, 2 Melta Guns 181p.
1 Rhino, 35
7 Plague Marines, 2 Melta Guns 181p.
1 Rhino, 35

Grand Total= 1994points

Put the oblits in back in cover. Fly the Prince's out and rape face. Etc. Etc.

deploy 2 units of oblits, so can pour in fire to make up their points, if you can deep strike down by an icon to use melta guns, but can be risky and can't be relied on. I would suggest deploying all of them in cover so can survive.

Lash Sorceror > Lash Prince

Lash prince can be targeted and will drop within the first 2 turns- while sorceror hidden in plague marines will keep on lashin for most of the game (hopefully).

90% of the time you shouldn't deepstrike your oblits in a lash list- you need that support fire stunning/destroying tanks. And lets not forget the nice lash flowers that can be plasma cannonDDD

daemon princes can move faster though, also if their being fired at the rest of the army can assault by the time 2 daemons prince have , so daemon princes job is done. also if ur in combat you can't be shot down, and if done correctly the DP's will be in combat in turn 1.

cgage00 wrote:
HQ
1 Sorcerer, IoS, Lash 125p.
1 Sorcerer, IoS, Lash 125p.

Heavy Support
3 Obliterators 225p.
3 Obliterators 225p.
3 Obliterators 225p.

Troops
7 Plague Marines, 2 Plasma Guns Champ Power fist 231p.
1 Rhino, Extra Armour 50p.
7 Plague Marines, 2 Plasma Guns Champ Power fist 231p.
1 Rhino, Extra Armour 50p.
7 Plague Marines, 2 Melta Guns champ power fist 221p.
1 Rhino 35p.
7 Plague Marines, 2 Melta Guns champ power fist 221p.
1 Rhino 35p

Grand Total= 1999points

This is a pretty solid list. Hnestly the dread is just a bad unit in this edition. I find that their unpredicatability makes them virtually unplayable.

You could play 10 games and be fine, but after you lose a game for no other reason than your dred did something dumb on a "crazy roll" you'll see what I mean.

The only thing this list lacks is variety. It's solid and playable, but quite predictable.

logg_frogg wrote:

cgage00 wrote:
HQ
1 Sorcerer, IoS, Lash 125p.
1 Sorcerer, IoS, Lash 125p.

Heavy Support
3 Obliterators 225p.
3 Obliterators 225p.
3 Obliterators 225p.

Troops
7 Plague Marines, 2 Plasma Guns Champ Power fist 231p.
1 Rhino, Extra Armour 50p.
7 Plague Marines, 2 Plasma Guns Champ Power fist 231p.
1 Rhino, Extra Armour 50p.
7 Plague Marines, 2 Melta Guns champ power fist 221p.
1 Rhino 35p.
7 Plague Marines, 2 Melta Guns champ power fist 221p.
1 Rhino 35p

Grand Total= 1999points

This is a pretty solid list. Hnestly the dread is just a bad unit in this edition. I find that their unpredicatability makes them virtually unplayable.

You could play 10 games and be fine, but after you lose a game for no other reason than your dred did something dumb on a "crazy roll" you'll see what I mean.

The only thing this list lacks is variety. It's solid and playable, but quite predictable.

If you lose a game to a single dread roll that you shouldn't have won that game in the first place. Especially with the 45 degree angle Errata. He walks along the edge of the board and wrecks gak. If you double tap into yourself make the right call. Like going to ground if they're on an objective. A good player will know what their doing.

If they are shoooting at the DP they are not shooting at the Obliterators or troops, that is a good thing ! Instead of the Dread, I would either use 5 raptors with 2 meltas, or powerfists in the squads. The other option would be 3 deepstriking Terminators with Combi meltas and 2 powerfists.

which mark would be good for raptors???

mark of khorne so have some punch and is quite cheap, or just take CG so are cheap and don't run away easily

I've thought about this for Raptors and I guess it would depend on how you are using them. If you are deep striking them then maybe IoN or IoCG, as they will more than likely die or run away the turn they come in. The IoN will make them tougher or the IoCG will hopefully make them stay another turn. But the IoN is very expensive and maybe not worth it.

If you are starting them on the board then IoS or IoK, then they can put some hurt on in CC. Don't attack anything with (I)5 though if you take IoS as it's not worth it otherwise.

Or run them just with 2 meltas and go tank hunting.

That's my views anyway.

Tabo wrote:
If you lose a game to a single dread roll that you shouldn't have won that game in the first place. Especially with the 45 degree angle Errata. He walks along the edge of the board and wrecks gak. If you double tap into yourself make the right call. Like going to ground if they're on an objective. A good player will know what their doing.

A dread will still force you to do something predicatble, or force you to split your forces in a way that may not be deirable.

It is far superior tactically if your forces are flexible and you aren't imposing limits on yourself. You should be forcing your opponent into situations, not forcing yourself into situations.

Out of the 14,000 points of chaos I own I only have 1 dred, and there is a reason for that. It only took a few games of the dred's upredictability at critical turning points to make me move away from a unit that I used to love to play.

Yes, you can recover from a single dread roll, but when you look at the odds and see that in an ave 6 turn game it should go crazy twice, at best be useless and at worst potentially kill your own troops.

Just doesn't seem like the best idea to me... and I have proven it to myself several times.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MrPhok wrote:which mark would be good for raptors???

MON seems to make them a little more survivable, but I have foind they work better in larger squads if you have the points.

try 8-10 raptors w/o a makr if you have the wiggle room

Here's the new list. I've made a few changes and it looks better!!!
HQ
1 Daemon Prince, IoS, Lash 155p.
1 Daemon Prince, IoS, Lash 155p.


Heavy Support
3 Obliterators 225p.
3 Obliterators 225p.
3 Obliterators 225p.

Troops
7 Plague Marines, 2 Plasma Guns 191p.
1 Rhino, Extra Armour 50p.
7 Plague Marines, 2 Plasma Guns 191p.
1 Rhino, Extra Armour 50p.
7 Plague Marines, 2 Melta Guns 181p.
1 Rhino, Extra Armour 50p.
7 Plague Marines, 2 Melta Guns 181p.
1 Rhino, Extra Armour 50p.

Grand Total= 1979points




Automatically Appended Next Post:
The total is 1929 points.
What should I do with the left over points???

I would either add some bodies to your squads or put some combi weapons or havoc launchers on your rhino's
Not quite enough points to start adding champs to your squads

Power Fists in one squad is always good. I think you can just get one. Maybe cram in two. Going at I1 isn't a huge deal for plague marines.

Ok, thanks.

ok I'll try with combis on my rhinos and then I'll try to change my list by using chaos lord with daemon weapon, greater daemons.