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This topic has sprung up in multiple forums and I would like to ask this as the main topic of the forum. How exactly should games like Warhammer, Warhammer 40k and the specialist range be viewed? Are the games purely (meaning only) for fun? Is there a deeper social context in which this game should be viewed? How politically correct should we be with this fun-ness? How should our own social and political view of the real world affect our ideas of the game world?

This has lasting consequences:
e.g.- The game is purely for my fun. It has no bearing on my personal or political values. The point of the game is to win. I will do so.
-This game is for social interaction. My friends and I use this as a game and our talk of political and social ideas pop up from this game. Our talk gets rather heated and colored at the FLGS.

My point is, how we answer these questions determines how we view and play this game. What exactly determines appropriateness for playing with our toy soldiers?


NOTE: DO NOT GET THIS THREAD LOCKED BY BEING MEAN AND HURTFUL TO OTHER PEOPLE. PLEASE FOLLOW ALL FORUM GUIDELINES AND JUST BE NICE.

These games have exactly the same social impact as every other hobby or leisure pursuit folks indulge in, that being, as much as the individual allows it to in his or her life.

If you ever want to see what a diverse spectrum of political and social personas and ideologies play, take a stroll through the OT board and witness the clashes that occur when we stop talking about the thing that unifies most of us here and start talking about all the things that divide us.

Most things that people do for fun are considered escapist. Would you sit down and re-enact the events of your day? Or would you rather indulge yourself in epic battles in the future? Or stunt-flying an airplane in your backyard? Or slaying a dragon?

Most hobbies contain an element of escapism, else we'd be playing games about accounting and retail workers...

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Most hobbies contain an element of escapism, else we'd be playing games about accounting and retail workers...

This. I kind of feel like you might be using the term 'escapist' in a way that most people aren't really considering. Escapism can include anything from toy soliders to watching/playing sports to going down to the pub to hit on women and drink all night.

Further, I don't get what any of your following questions have to do with escapism. Could you explain better?

Sure. What i am trying to get at is a better understanding of how much real life should we be bringing to the game board? If GW games are escapist then should our play (and interactions with other players) be whatever we want it to be or does it still need to fit with social norms (potentially making it non escapist)? The questions were just an attempt at getting people to think in a circle around that concept.

Well I certainly play them (and any other games) as a way of taking my mind of real world things such as home and work for a few short hours, so to me they are...

Mick

Aren't all Hobbies escapist? That the point of a hobby, right?

Yes. But there's nothing minimal in that.
I think it has some artistic quality too

Of course they are. Take on the role of an ultra butch manly Space Marine weilding an oversized weapon (generally of the phallic-inspired variety) to defend your territory in the Imperium.
For imasculated teenagers everywhere.

Would have covered more of this in an essay I was writing for a class of mine, but I was running out of time and space, so I was only able to briefly touch upon it.

Well, given that one of the races of 40k is made of up priates that rape people to death to fuel their immortality magic... I would hope this stuff is escapist.

Polonius wrote:Well, given that one of the races of 40k is made of up priates that rape people to death to fuel their immortality magic... I would hope this stuff is escapist.

Wait. That doesn't work?

I think he's beating around the bush to ask if we should be LARPing or dressing like furries while we play our 40k games.

yes

I play 40k because my wife beats me and my parents like my brother better....

I don't think it's any more or less escapist than most other hobbies. Either way, you're probably not thinking about work while you're playing, so it's at least some kind of escape.

Painting soldier after soldier as if it were work kind of kills the escapist part of it for me... haha jk

I think the games are somewhat escapist mostly with the background/fluff.... at work I still try to approach work tactically (how much time do I have... what needs to get done... what can I approach... how shall I execute my tasks... where's the coffee?!)

Noir wrote:Aren't all Hobbies escapist? That the point of a hobby, right?

Sums up most of the thread


It fills my mind up from time to time. Girlfriend/work/classes/bros/everyday grind. Gives me a "Friday I get to push little figures around and roll dice pew pew". Bored in English Editorials? Write up a list. Bored on break after work? Pull out iPod, use wifi and browse forums. So on.

I thought it was a gate way to devil worship. Pfft what a waste of 20 some odd years.

MikeMcSomething wrote:I think he's beating around the bush to ask if we should be LARPing or dressing like furries while we play our 40k games.

Grey Knight Luke wrote:yes

Note, my current gaming group doesn't play GW games, but we do play fantasy and sci-fi skirmishes. That said...

All hobbies are somewhat escapist, but based on the above, I would say that baseline, wargaming is siginificantly less escapist than certain other hobbies. When I and my friends wargame we do, to some extent let our imaginations enter the "world of the game" but we don't attempt to alter our

-Physical appearance
-Personality
-Beliefs
-Manner of speech

It's a grey area, but I would say that it is significantly less escapist than LARP'ing or other activities. Wargaming is for us a fun activity that is both a craft/artistic endeavor and a means to socialize with real people, not imaginary charachters. As an asside, in refference to the original post statment about "the point of the game is to win" I would say that is probably secondary for us to the priority of hanging out with good people.

As to how our worldview, fantasies, preferences affect the game, who knows? I'm sure that the various armies and forces we choose is affected by our beliefs, pop culture, etc. but they don't seem to be overtly conncted to our worldview, so we'll leave that for Psychoanalysts. We all know, or are getting to know each other as real people pretty well, so we don't have to muck up the experience by trying to figure out "What your science fiction army says about you".