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This occured over the weekend, curious if we did it right...

Grey Knights wipe out the remenants of a guardian unit insulating Eldrad with bodies
Grey Knights Stormraven fires four Mindstrike Missiles at Eldrad
The hits caused perils of the warp as part of their special rule
Eldrad special rule got to ignore Perils on 3+, but he failed to ignore two of them with the special roll
He now has 3+ invulnerable save to make and has made the roll successfully twice.
Perils of the warp in BRB says he must reroll successful Perils saves, so when rerolled, he failed twice.
He had a spell effect on that lets him reroll failed saves, he rerolled the failed invulnerable saves and made one, but failed the other and died.

... I think I got that right...

Cheers,

Tac

Wow, that's confusing. The rulebook states that you can never re-roll a re-roll, so I think that... One of your re-rolls... Or possibly two... Were illegal? God that's confusing. I would say that you did it correctly up until you used the Fortune effect to re-roll those invulnerable saves that you had already re-rolled as part of the Perils of the Warp special rule thingy. I don't think that you were allowed to re-roll those a second time, even if it's from a seperate effect.

In my opinion the perils ability to force you to re-roll the passed invulnerable saves and Eldrads ability to re-roll failed ones would cancel each other out so the perils of the warp would just be a normal invulnerable save.

Not quite.

The last spell effect that allows him to re-roll failed saves doesn't work because you can't re-roll a re-roll. Eldrad would have taken 2 wounds instead of only the one.

Nungunz,

Hypothetically... after Eldrad failed to ignore the PotW on the two, if Eldrad had next failed both perils with his 3+ invulnerable save, then Fortune would have been able to be used to reroll the first PotW fails.... but then Perils says that if you successfully save, you then must reroll the successful save. Would that part now be ignored by your reading?

If I understand your read correctly, it seems that depending upon which came first A) successful invulnerable save or B) Failed invulnerable save, means that only either Fortune reroll or the Perils reroll rule comes into effect.

We applied all of the rolls because the more we talked about it, the more it seemed like we were ignoring either one or the other like you stated here, and it didn't seem right to ignore one rule or the other...

Cheers,

Tac

You may never re roll a re roll. This gives you two options.

1) Roll the dice and immediatly re roll as either rule will kick in, and accept the second roll

2) roll the dice and forgo re roll rules as they cancel each other out.

If the Invulnerable save against Perils in the Warp is successful -> re-roll it, since it's a Perils in the Warp save.
If the Invulnerable save against Perils in the Warp is not successful -> re-roll it, since Eldrad is under the effect of Fortune.

Thus, regardless of the outcome of the save -> re-roll it.

Second roll stand.

Here's how it works:

Roll your saves. Let's say for this example that he passes one and fails one.
Fortune says re-roll your failed saves. Pick that die up.
Perils says re-roll your successful saves. Pick that die up.
Roll both saves again, since both results said to re-roll. Let's say he passes one and fails one again.
You can re-roll neither die, since you can't re-roll a re-rolled result.

In effect, what you do is roll all your saves, pick them all up regardless of what you got, and roll them again, and have to take the 2nd result. Since doing so really serves no purpose, most people simply play the two abilities as canceling each other out.

Tactica wrote:Nungunz,

Hypothetically... after Eldrad failed to ignore the PotW on the two, if Eldrad had next failed both perils with his 3+ invulnerable save, then Fortune would have been able to be used to reroll the first PotW fails.... but then Perils says that if you successfully save, you then must reroll the successful save. Would that part now be ignored by your reading?

Yup, it I think this is one of those annoying cases where re-rolling successful saves and re-rolling failed saves pretty much ends up cancelling out the effects.

Very interesting guys, I'm going to run this by the group.

Cheers,

Peril of the Warp is triggered on Eldrad w/o Fortune
1) Roll for Ghost Helm: Pass he is fine, Fail go to step 2
2) Roll Invul save: Pass go to step 3, Fail takes a wound
3) Roll Invul save: Pass he is fine, Fail takes a wound

Peril of the Warp is triggered on Eldrad w/ Fortune
1) Roll for Ghost Helm: Pass he is fine, Fail go to step 2
2) Roll Invul save: Pass he is fine, Fail takes a wound

Reroll if failed and reroll if successful have traditionally canceled each other out when they clashed.

RAW you still have to roll them twice, but at least you don't have to pick out the passed/failed saves for the original roll!

I might point out that you didn't need to clear out the 'insulating' models in the unit first - if the template ends up over a Psyker then a Psyker has been hit. With scatter taken into account, and assuming you wiped out the Guardians on the same turn, you would have been more likely to cause more damage in any case if you fired the missiles before you fired your small arms.

As above.

Mindstrikes are models "hit" take a Perils; this CANNOT be allocated to any other model in the unit.

Agreed - I hope it didn't come across that I was implying that simply hitting the unit is sufficient to cause the Psi-shock effect.

I intended to relate that the regular damage from the blasts would have had a chance to injure guardians even if it scattered away from the Psyker - but since the guardians were dead already, a miss would have been a miss. Following that up with anti-infantry fire would have been more effective than vice-versa.

Arctic / Nos:

Point well made. I didn't elaborate on how the GK cleared out the guardians in the question as how the guardians died was not the point of the question. I only bothered mentioning that they were cleared out to articulate what did happen.

If curious, at the end of the Eldar turn, the GK justicar's head exploded when he tried to cast a spell on 3D6 and died to perils of the warp.

The two GK with +2 Init Halberds killed the remaining guardians in combat, but there were only two GK left and Eldrad finished off the GK unit with his poisoned 2+ power weapon (or whatever it is) winning the combat and consolidating on the end of the Eldar turn.

Following movement in the GK turn, the storm raven opened up on the one wound remaining lone Eldrad straight away.

(I think I got all that right... memory is getting fuzzy now that its Wed - hah!)

Cheers,

Tac