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Ran into this last night...

I measure a straight line from the hull where I want to move. My opp bends his tape ruler and pivots each time to represent actual movement?

First, what does everyone else do. Measure from the hull or bend tape/pivot?

Second, if there is terrain/models in the way, but I could pivot mid move to avoid it/them, should I do that, or is it assumed in the straight line move?

Thanks

There is no rule that requires vehicles to move in a straight line. The rules specifically allow them to pivot as they move.

Some players just measure the distance from start point to end point, while some measure, pivot, and carry on measuring. It's all a bit grey, and pretty much down to how you and your opponent choose to play it.

It is definitely grey.

I guess my real issue is a straight line and a curve can be two very different distances.

The line in the BRB states that you measure from the hull. It doesn't say straight or curved. If you have to zig-zag it could really affect your movement. I'm kinda new so maybe I missed something.

As you've stated, I don't think there is a right or wrong, but it just seems to me that bending a tape measure can be imprecise (I dont have the hands of a surgeon) especially if it is a long distance, more than one zig or zag and if there are other models close by.

The difference in distance could matter in some circumstances. Going 12 inches straight through terrain will get you further, but 12 inches curving around it will avoid the potential immobilizing of the vehicle. You measure distance you move, not just displacement.

You can measure the straight line to where you move to, but you go through everything in between. If you want to go around something, measure the distance around. AKA move X, pivot, move Y, pivot, etc. Just be careful, some people like to pivot their vehicles oddly to get extra inches out of it.

The trick of curving the tape measure is useful for quick corner turns because you KNOW the exact distance without doing it step by step. If you're doing a move with more than one pivot, its not going to be as useful.

As LightningClaws said, you have to measure the actual distance the vehicle moves, where it moves. If you want to move around a piece of difficult terrain, to avoid the risk of Immobilizing, you have to measure AROUND that terrain. You can't measure over it unless you're moving over it and taking the risk

I usually go with Mannahnin's idea. The vehicle will move around it, so you should take that into account for the move. Unless of course you're playing Eldar

If it's a skimmer, obviously it can move straight over terrain and other units.

IF you didn't do as mannahnin said, tanks could move 60" and still shoot as if moving 6" because you could measure start-end, which could be around a very long piece of terrain.

Note that for the purpose of assaults, the actual distance matters, so if you take 12" to get around a rock, you might still be hit on a 4+.

You have to move in straight lines. You are given permission to move forward and backwards and told you can't wheel. So no movement other than straight forward or back is allowed and you can pivot on the spot as much as you want during.

Fling - incorrect

The basic movement rules let you move in any direction. The vehicle rules imply they should replace these basic rules, but never actually do.
You can, in fact, move in any direction you like.

Fair enough you still can't wheel though so are still restricted to stright line movement.

So a Rhino that has its front hull facing North can move East with its hull still pointing north for the whole duration of that move? It isnt required to pivot?

FlingitNow wrote:Fair enough you still can't wheel though so are still restricted to stright line movement.

A curve is nothing but a huge amount of pivots and small straight lines. Wheeling is a legal move, though a useless one.

Fling - yes you can. You can move in any direction and change direction as often as you like. When you do that an infinite number of times you get a smooth curve. Elementary maths

Yeah good point. But you have to ensure the vehicle is facing in the same direction the entire time otherwise it is wheeling .

So a Rhino that has its front hull facing North can move East with its hull still pointing north for the whole duration of that move? It isnt required to pivot?

It depends if you take the vehicle rules to replace the normal rules for movement then you'd have to pivot. If you take the vehicles rules as additions/exceptions to normal rules then as Nos has pointed out you are free to move in any direction.

As Nos has alos pointed out it doesn't tell you that the vehicle rules replace the normal rules (I thought that it did) so the additions/exceptions interpretation is the RaW.

Hmmm very strange (and silly imho).

Fling - it still wouldnt be wheeling, as you are allowed to pivot for free as well. So during your infinite moves you can pivot.

Same effect as a wheel, but 100% within the rules.

There actually is a line of reasoning that limits vehicles to straight line movement.

If we look at pg 56 we find "Because vehicles do not fight in the same manner as creatures of flesh and blood, their rules differ from other models in a number of ways, detailed here."


Using this rule we then can proceed to the vehicles and movement section on pg 57 to see that vehicles can pivot and combine forward and reverse movement in the same turn. This would seem to be a good example of rules differing from creatures, altho it suffers from the usual lack of detail for which GW is famous.





And its very fortunate that we can draw these limits on vehicles, because of the rule about pivoting not counting as moving.

If vehicles can move sideways we then can follow that chain of logic over to the tank shock section and have a world of fun. Because for a tank shock we turn the vehcile and then move it straight ahead...but if a vehicle can move in any orientation then we can also start to pivot the vehicle as it moves along its tank shock. Because pivoting isnt movement, and a vehicle can freely pivot as they move. The requirement for the tank shock is that the vehcile must keep moving straight, which of course it can in any orientation if vehicles can move sideways. So the landraider could pinwheel across the table, spinning to hit extra units as it slides sideways but also pivoting to and slewing to avoid any of those models armed with PF.

Sliggoth wrote:There actually is a line of reasoning that limits vehicles to straight line movement.

If we look at pg 56 we find "Because vehicles do not fight in the same manner as creatures of flesh and blood, their rules differ from other models in a number of ways, detailed here."


Using this rule we then can proceed to the vehicles and movement section on pg 57 to see that vehicles can pivot and combine forward and reverse movement in the same turn. This would seem to be a good example of rules differing from creatures, altho it suffers from the usual lack of detail for which GW is famous.


If vehicles can move sideways we then can follow that chain of logic over to the tank shock section and have a world of fun. Because for a tank shock we turn the vehcile and then move it straight ahead...but if a vehicle can move in any orientation then we can also start to pivot the vehicle as it moves along its tank shock. Because pivoting isnt movement, and a vehicle can freely pivot as they move. The requirement for the tank shock is that the vehcile must keep moving straight, which of course it can in any orientation if vehicles can move sideways. So the landraider could pinwheel across the table, spinning to hit extra units as it slides sideways but also pivoting to and slewing to avoid any of those models armed with PF.

The only issue with that thought process is that the Tank Shock entry specifically specifies the type of movement. The earlier entries on normal movement allow for unlimited pivots. Tankshock, however, explicity requires the facing of the model "turn the model" and then also specifically stipulates movement "straight line" movement.

I will note, this does not say that you *cannot* turn, pivot, wheel or whatever. What it *does* say is that in order to be able to tank shock a target, the movement must be in a single orientation and on straight line movement. If those explicit parameters are not met, the model is not prevented from moving, it simply is unable to tankshock. IIRC, the same applies for ramming, does it not?

Parameters that specify requirements for a certain effect do not detail the full range of abilities available to a unit (in this case, vehicular movement). They simply outline the actions necessary to allow a certain rule (in that case: tank shock) to be executed.

Sligoth - hence the "imply" in my post. They imply these rules should take precedence, but they DONT.