gar wrote:I would be most appreciative of any comments, critiques or opinions on this list, especially for a more competitive tournament. Thanks much
I am using this as my mantra for offering opinions on this list - as such I may come off a bit dismissive of your choices, but when you start asking for list advice specifically for competitive play I tend to be a bit more aggressive.
I submit for the lord of the dark city my hybrid list balanced list. I read Dash of Pepper's tactica and the comments from Thor and others. So while I do not kow you, thanks for the guidelines.
Huzzah, thank you.
2k tourney popping up everywhere here in Texas and I would like to do well. based on what I have read I am attempting to put together a balance list that includes units I like and is still very competitive.
I'll point out right away that being competitive while also fielding units you like is...well...I hope the units you like are also the competitive units. I would honestly advocate deciding which of these is more important to you now - if you try to harf-arse it I suspect you won't fully please yourself for either goal.
Baron
Dash and I are still fighting over this guy
I actually am starting to buy that he can be competitive, but only in certain specific loadouts (aka - not with Hellions). Also, the thing he's best at (generating alpha strike) is not what your list is about - so even if I accept the Baron is awesome on toast he is not awesome on toast with this list because you're doing things that are not about alpha strike. Focus on using the alpha strike or decide again what this guy is about.
(1) Haemonculus with WWP and Shattershard
Okay, you are putting a grand total of two units into reserve to use that
WWP. So already I'm almost wondering its point.
Oh, and, yeah, 100% of your close combat forces are tied up involving the webway. I wonder what Tau are going to shoot first?
You also have a bit of a conflict between what the Haemy is doing and your Aethersail upgrade on the Wych Raider (really the Haemy is such a mess, but I'll get to that). Okay, if you use Athersails you can't disembark, if you want the webway out to help the units that potentially coming in from reserve on Turn 2 than you need to drop it Turn 1. So...Turn 1 the Haemy is hopping out to drop the portal for the reserves arriving Turn 2 - no Aethersails. Turn 2 the Wyches should be hopping out to go assault something - no Aethersails. Turn 3...Aethersails for ramming on a skimmer that can go 24"? I...I don't get the strategy - what's going on here?
Also, as I said, the Haemy is messed up. He's hopping out to deploy the
WWP but he has a single shot template weapon which means Turn 2 he probably wants to get back onto a skimmer so he can fly up and flamer something to death, so I guess he hops back in at the top of 2 before the skimmer moves off again? All of this to help
Hellions who you're considering maybe deepstriking anyway, and Beastmasters - who are one of the surprisingly toughest units to kill in the codex? I...whu?
I would strongly advise you to just drop the
WWP. It'll save you some points, points that for a competitive list are probably better spent on a Crucible for the meta gain there - plus it will serve better with his purpose of riding with the Wyches up into the face of the enemy and also allow you to move your Wych skimmer flat out on Turn 1 if you wish, which is strategically a huge gain to their threat radius, or you can focus on assaulting Turn 1 with them and not have to gak around with the Haemy wanting to hop in and out.
(4) Trueborn with blasters in Venom w/ 2 splinter cannons
(4) Trueborn with blasters in Venom w/ 2 splinter cannons
(3) Trueborn with blasters in Venom w/ 2 splinter cannons
I'm actually a big fan of only running 3 Trueblasters in a boat (though my lances appear to be "luckier" than Dash's
) I have no issues with this loadout.
(5) Warriors w/ Blaster in Venom w/ 2 splinter cannons
(5) Warriors w/ Blaster in Venom w/ 2 splinter cannons
No issues, though I will note you're starting to look heavy on the AI and light on the
AT. Remember, assault units are AI - you don't need to shoot things that are being drowned in Wyches and Beastmasters except to maybe soften them up first. You've got enough S.Cannons here to start being a threat to green tides - and I don't think you have enough
AT to be a threat to mech
IG yet, so...maybe switch some Venoms to Raiders or adjust your assault elements in some way?
(9) Wyches w/ hekatrix w PGL & Agonzier w/ Haywire grenades in Raider with FF, Shock Prow, EAS
Wow, pricey Raider right there. Points could be saved and redirected easily, especially the Athersails as I noted earlier. I'm also not sure I see the value of the
PGL in this squad - you really think you need to spend 20 points to reduce the number of attacks against you in assault? Who are you being assaulted by anyway, you're the
DE, you're faster than everyone else.
Also - 238, that's how much you spent on this unit even though you spent a lot of points on upgrades you barely need.
(14) Hellions with Helliarch with PGL, Splinter pistol & Stun Claw
259 - that means you could drop this squad and get a second squad of oddly equipped Wyches and still save points.
Save points.
I know I appear to be one of the few sane ones but, Hellions suck. They certainly suck for competitive play because they're just inferior at doing their job compared to other options in our Codex. If you're fielding the Baron with these guys than he'll suck too, because Hellions suck. They have questionable stat lines, meager defense, and (though fast) are fragile foot sloggers who'll be praying for a cover save. Also, as you have them equipped, even with the Baron, they have no power weapons at all. Huzzah - an assault force that costs over 200 points and they have to try to chip their way through
MEQ's 3+ Ooooh, scary.
I'd drop these guys like a bad habit and get more Wyches who will do more, for less.
I you go insane and insist on fielding these guys here's a few quick thoughts.
1. If the Baron is going with them, he has a
PGL, save points and drop it off the Helliarch.
2. Get something other than a Stunclaw - Hellions suck, and the Stunclaw is actually capable of making them suck more. Get an Agoniser or venom blade or something (heck, the Hellglaive is better than the Stunclaw)
(4) beastsmasters w/ 4 flocks Razorwings, 5 Kymerae & clawed Fiend
In Dash's and mine's ongoing discussion we do seem to agree that if the Baron is a functional tool for the army, than he is a functional tool teamed with Beastmasters. I suggest you follow his methods there.
I'd also advocate dropping the Clawed Fiend, those things are a silly point sink. Razorwings are pretty much superior in every way, and the Kymerae are needed for the invuln saves. The Fiends are not needed at all.
(3) Ravagers w/ FF
Ravtastic.
10
DL -
13 Blasters -
10 Splinter cannons -
14 splinter pods -
Are you going to claim how many splinter rifles you have next?
The big issue with your army is wasted focus in trying to have not only a mix of shooting/assault but also a mix in basic strategy. You're 75% of the way to just doing a
DE Airforce build, I see no reason to toy around with
WWP at that point - either go
WWP or don't (don't) but
WWP isn't something you add a "dash" of to your army. At 2000 I also think you're greatly underestimating your
AT capability - all you have is a handful of lances, a solid Blaster battery, and one Wych squad - whoo-hoo. Mech
IG, Razorspam, and any other dedicated armored build is going to rip this list a new one without too much trouble. To deal with mech
IG you're almost obligated to build a very specific list - but that's the horror that is that freakin' codex right now. I think you need to redefine your assault elements and probably bring in a few more Raiders instead of Venoms in order to up your anti-tank potential (especially on Turn 1)
My thoughts, hope they help,
Thor.
