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Ok, this is the first swing at building my Greek mythology themed list, centering around Centaurs. This is my first crack at a Wood Elf list and probably is a pretty solid bad idea.

The general strategy I am going for is playing keep away. All the units move 9" or more and are either fast cav or single infantry that move fast (or two flying eagles), so the plan is pretty much to piss around the flanks, avoiding toe to toe combat while plinking here and there. If can I get a warmachine dropped or a block destroyed by spell craft and charging, I can avoid giving up points afterwards.

Sort of a strange army idea, and I don't know how well it will work. On the one hand, there is a fairly large amount of points in characters, but on the other if they never see combat they can't get killed and those points are safe. Sorta.

Anyway, here's the first crack I took at it: (If I forget, every Char has a long bow, and Elven Steeds are 9" Fast cav.)

2500 points, Wood Elves
Lords: Total 615
Highborn, Alterkin, Arcane Bodkins, Bow of Loren, Dragon Hat, AHW, LA, Shield (262 pts) Mv 9, 5 shots that ignore armor at 30". Fervent hope that he never needs that armor save.

Spell Weaver (Life or Beasts... dunno) Level 4, E.Steed, Wand of Wych Elm, Stone of Crystal Mere. (353 pts) Fast Cav, 9" move, Reroll failed dispells, 3+ ward till it fails. Acceptance of Warmachine death. Long bow

Heroes: Total 624
Spell Singer Level 2, E.Steed, Divination Orb, Ring of Ruin (187pts) Extra Dispel die if 3 dice are thrown at a spell, fireball yay! Long bow

Noble: Wild Rider, E.Steed, LA, Long Bow, Dawn Spear, Obsidian Trinket (172 pts) 6+ Ward, MR 2, 5+ Ward except vs magic, +1 attack if he didn't charge, ItP, if he causes an unsaved wound, the wounded unit is at -1 to hit, small card to remember all his rules

Noble: Wild Rider, E.Steed, LA, Long Bow, Twilight Spear, Helm of Hunt (172 pts) 6+ Ward, MR 1, 5+ Ward except vs magic, +1 attack if he didn't charge, +1 attack and +1 WS if he DID charge, ItP, Killing blow, slightly larger card to remember all his rules

Noble: Steed, Longbow, Spear, Light armor, shield. Lessoned learned about being last in line at the armory. 93 pts

Core: Total 765

2x 10 Glade Riders, Musician

10 Glade Riders, Musician, Banner

Special: Total 338 pts
15 Wild Riders, musician, Standard Bearer, flaming banner

Rare : Total 100
2x Giant Eagles

The general set up would be 1 caster in each GR unit, with the nekked noble in the third. The two Nobles with credit cards go in the wild riders, while the highborn runs around the flanks and machine guns things.

Worries:
1) Shooting armies: mitigated by long range of bows and mobility, but a gunline is going to be a bear.
2) Super tough elite armies: WoC and Ogres will be tough to get points from, but if I can drop one unit I might be able to keep enough of my army alive to deny all points, or enough to pull a win.
3) Magic Heavy: an army that can slam 6 dice to IR every spell into me is going to be an issue. There is some MR on the Wild Riders, but by in large enough magic missiles will destroy me due to low model count.

Those are pretty much the top 3 army builds, right? Great.

The hard decision is what lore to take on the Level 4. Beasts has some nice tricks that elves need, boosted str and t, more attacks on the characters etc., plus the sorc can act as a mobile bolt thrower with Amber Spear, which is really appealing. Everyone being mounted makes casting a little easier too.
Life however can bring back wounds and bring models back to life, as well as offering regen and toughness. Of course the real win condition is dwellers below, which is exactly what you need to cripple blocks before the wild riders slam into them. I am leaning towards life, but want to try beasts too.

Anyway, let me know what you think! Trying to stick with the almost all cav list, but a handful of infantry is acceptable. I just don't want to be converting and painting like 60 rank and file :(

Man, I really want this to work out for you. I'm just not sure it will.

Keep in mind, my suggestions aren't really that good. First, all your worries are very legit and I would add steadfast into that list as well. Here is what I would like to see, but have no idea how you will get it into your army.

1) You are already short on units, so I might make the glade riders into 2x15 units. This way they might be able to disrupt if they hit a flank. I understand you want to avoid combat as much as you can, but if something juicy is open for a combo charge or your wild riders are tied up and need the help then you can still lose a couple of riders and still disrupt.
2) I may be getting my rules confused now, but a BSB might be useful to reroll rally tests for fleeing units. I am guessing you will flee most charges.
3) Hail of Doom arrow. I think it is a must in all WE lists - at least mine . What about a build like this for your alter highborn? HoDa, HotH, wildfire blades, str. potion, +20 points for some type of defense. He pops the arrow before he charges, then charges in with 7 str. 7 flaming attacks. Wait...I think HoDa and potion of strength are both enchanted items. well forget that build. I still like HoDa though.
4) I think I like life too, but the WE magic may fill the gaps of beast better?

I am still saving to buy some gors (maybe DE witches) as satyrs (and nymphs) and minos (to replace treekin) to add to my WE list too. Hopefully, someone can give you some better advice to get you started.

Good luck.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another thought, but I wish I had my book close.

What if you went with 2 level 3's and took life and beasts? How about a couple of alter nobles? One with wildfire blades, helm of the hunt, and str. potion, one with hail of doom arrow and something else, and wth one with the amber pendant (opponent always strikes last) and a GW. Alright, that was just me getting carried away, but I think you could squeeze in two. Maybe not. I think I am too tired and burned out on thinking. I was thinking that for an army that is trying to avoid combat, that having two wild rider characters was a little too much, but you do need some type of cc unit.

I will quit wasting your space with my ramblings.

Hehe thanks for the response man.

1) Glade riders top out at 10, for no apparent reason. About the only thing they are doing is hitting a flank and hoping they don't lose more than one so the sorc can fill out a second rank :(

2) I had thought about a BSB, and I might try and shoehorn one in still. What kept me back is that he can't be any kind of Kindred (and I really wanted him in the Wildriders) and so would have to trot around with the glade riders, which might work. I was half thinking he auto-died if a unit fled from a charge, but it is only breaking from combat so it might still be worth while.

3) I like Hail of Doom arrow, but it is one use, so I decided to go with the arcane bodkins and the Attacks=shots bow for the lord. Might still try and jam the hail of doom on someone though, as it is pretty sweet.

4) No idea on the lores myself, will have to test when I make the army, sometime in 2032. Maybe a new army book will be out by then with a cooler lore?

5) I am thinking about two level 3 casters as well. The only thing really holding me back is that both Beasts and Life have 1-2 spells I REALLY want (Dwellers and Amber Spear) and without a cheap Spell Familiar type item I am nervous about splitting casting. Might still give it a shot though, easy enough to promote the level 2 in some games

As to steadfast, yea, I probably will end up needing some sort of block, eternal guard or treemen or something. EG are just kind of expensive though and don't fit the theme, Glade Guard are so squishy I would be worried about putting them in melee, and Treekin are cool but expensive. I might put in some treekin though, as I had originally planned to before I spent 1200 points on characters... What worries me a bit though is that they sort of ensure I get into melee, as they can't quite prance around like the other troops, and awesome as they are, they are weak vs. flaming attacks, which every army seems to have to deal with HPAs and Hydras. I am concerned that they will make an obvious target in that way and just turn into high points valued mulch and require me to actually fight someone to try and make those points back.

Will have a think on this, but I wonder if even smaller units might do better? Giving you more chances to bait and cause failed charges, divert, and the like.

Not sure how you'll ever get points except with magic, and life/beasts aren't doing much offensively (or at least life... I believe beasts has a bit more).

I'll also finally go through with finding out from my friend what his marauder horsemen cav army list was going to be (I know it was MSU with all 5-man units, but I'm not sure what was going to be doing the killing). Maybe there will be some things you can use for WE, too.

Something strangely appeals to me about this list, with everything (besides the budgies) being fast Cav and getting a Vanguard move you could potentially be behind his lines after Turn 1 now your opponent will not have any charges that he can make and if he reforms? well you then just scoot round the side and you can potentially avoid charges all day long,

If played this way you might be able to get away with not having a BSB as you wont be fleeing much,

With both Nobles in the Wildrider Unit the total comes to 17, maybe room enough to drop one for a HoDA on the nekked Noble?

I would keep the Alter Highborn as is as with his armour defying shots will make short work of stuff like knights that this army might have trouble dealing with.

RiTides wrote:Not sure how you'll ever get points except with magic, and life/beasts aren't doing much offensively (or at least life... I believe beasts has a bit more).

Um, perhaps dwellers below, the most offensive spell in the game?

(I actually prefer Beasts for Wehr's list, with its overabundance of characters ready to get jacked up, its weakness vs monsters, etc. Beyond dwellers, Life is ultra-defensive, but largely related to combat. Yes it will keep your 'blocks' of cav alive vs small arms fire, but how much of there is that? I suppose T7 elves vs even S5 throwers is a big benefit over T3, though in that case I'd just shoot something else with my artillery, as Life can only help one unit at a time.)

It's an interesting list Wehr. I would second (forth?) the concerns about how it gets points ... except that I know how it would play against those foolish generals who don't invest in only huge blocks and uber-monsters (i.e. my skaven). I'm more curious what it would do against my warriors, which are silly in their way (3 monsters) but still with warrior core that has to be dealt with in some form.

I actually played against an interesting 2k WE list on Tuesday, in one of the least enjoyable and rage-filled games in a long time. Don't expect a BONEBREAKER on it, but basically I took a no shooting skaven list with minimal magic, so my game involved moving, being shot, moving, being shot, failing all of my charges, being shot, and then once in combat failing any dice I could. Helped that the WE guy's dice were rocking out while mine were stabbing me in the back. The reason I bring this up is that he played his list correctly - avoiding, backing up, shooting and only engaging soft underbellies - and it was utterly infuriating. It reminded me of playing Evan's treemonics with my ogres, where every damn game involved him sliding back and sideways until I had him in a corner Turn 5 and allowed him to kill half my army so I could kill all of his. So anyway, avoidance WE can still work in 8th, but if my dice had been average (!!) then our game would likely have been a draw, not the win to WE that it was.

To sate your curiosity, his list:

Scout Highborn - loren, bodkins
Beast Weaver - level 3, 6+ ward
14 Glade Guard - flaming standard, musician
14 Glade Guard - musician
10 Dryads - champ
6 Treekin
10 Wild Riders - full command
10 Way Watchers
2 Eagles

Not much relation to yours ... The way watchers + machine gun highborn were surprisingly effective, and virtually impossible to deal with without a magic missile or redundant small arms units.

- Salvage

Maybe you can add in some glade guard for a fire base? Not sure how you'd model them, though.

And yes, I forgot about dwellers . I think it's still only 2 offensive spells in the lore, though... although with that one you might not need many others.

Beasts fits the theme better, though, so it'd be worth trying out!

Thanks for the comments guys!

Hail of Doom Arrow: Amusingly this arrow is absent largely due to the fact that I am bumping up against my hero point allowance. I could pull the ring of ruin off the Level 2 though and trade for that. Given the questionable nature of magic it might not be a bad idea actually. The ring is mostly just for a little extra Flaming damage to scrape regen off monsters, so it might work out.

I do really like the idea of the Alter Highborn with shooty arrows of doom. As you point out against any sort of knight unit it is just a question of rolling 5 2's to hit, and X 3-4's to wound to drop units. A little luck and I can drop a 5 man Empire knight or even Chaos knight unit in one round of shooting, nearly making his points back.

Which sort of puts me to the "how I win (if I do)" idea: Kill 1-2 units which I can kill easily, then hide. So for example, playing against my lovely but probably squishy WoC:

Turn 1: Vanguard move EVERYTHING to the flanks to avoid charges. No warmachine to shoot, so Alter Noble tries to drop Chaos knights, everything else shoots at marauder cav, sorc tries to dweller a unit or marauders or Amber Spears some more knights/warriors or ogres.
Turn 2: Keep dancing about until knights/marauder horse and maybe another unit are dead. Try to keep my units from getting nuked in magic phase.
Turn 3 on: Stay the hell out of melee.

For say Salvage's skaven: Turn one is the same, except I shoot weapons teams and gutter runners with GR and try to have the Alter noble pick off the warmachines while the sorc dwellers a block and the lesser sorc fireballs the HPA. Piss around a bit till fire coming back at me is minimized, then if I am ahead on points prance around blocks, and if I am behind do something silly like throw the flaming Wild riders into the HPA or the flank of some clanrats. Maybe try to killing blow a bonebreaker.

Against RiTides monster mash... I dunno, cry? Probably flick Alter arrows against the Shaggoth till it is dead, likewise with the sorc. (Gotta roll 5's and 6's sooner or later.) Flick burning arrows at the trolls till I feel good hitting them on the flank with wild riders. Avoid the bloody ogres like the plague.

Basically my strategy is that every army has SOME unit that is fairly squishy vs shooting and expensive: warmachines, monsters, things on horses, nekkid men. Anything that can catch me is probably as squishy as I am, so I win that.

The main trouble is that the board is only 6x4, so against a really magic/shooting heavy army with angry blocks (say DE) I will have a hard time staying out of range of missiles while avoiding melee, and with low shooting armies I will be forced to use the fast cav rule to prance my ponies just out of LOS for charging. That might prove easier said than done.

I dunno, probably won't work, but I am knocking around how I am going to do it, and going to try and cast up female torsos for the GR's today, so I will make some cool models, play two games, get curb stomped, and go back to the WoC probably

I agree, your main problem could be running out of space- so this might work best at lower point levels. I'd also be concerned with, if you're heading out to the flanks, you really have to stay out of units' sight arc or they can still charge you... and since you flee from center-to-center, you'll probably run off the side of the board!

Come on, you can't give up on them that quickly. Winning isn't everything, female torsos on the other hand(s) might be.

I can't believe I keep forgetting about the limit 10 on glade riders.

I like the bow of loren and bodkins set up too, but I keep talking myself out of it because it is still only strength 3. Granted there are quite a few things that are still only toughness 3, so it should get its points back.

I am still wondering about the big block of wild riders and two nobles in a non-combat army. What if you dropped 5 and a noble to squeeze in a unit of something else? You would lose your all cavalry theme, but I would think a unit of wardancers or waywatchers in your extra forest would be hard to lose and they can bring some pain with kb attacks. I also like the idea of using satyrs or nymphs to fit the theme.

Maybe if you have extra points you could make that naked noble the BSB with that bane bow and hail of doom arrow.

I really have no idea. I am looking at my old list compared to this one and realizing that there are a lot of changes I want to make to my old one too. I really do like the highborn alter with loren and bodkins, but the scout noble would be good too. Maybe even add a noble waywatcher with HoDa, but like you said that is a one time shot, but he would at least have kb short range shots after that.

Sorry, I'm no help. I will check back to see what you come up with, but I should really get some homework and cleaning done.

Hehe... female torsos being everything sort of sent my brain to a weird place. But yes, I have the silicon setting now, using the Rackham Lanyfs of the Black Woods as a base. When I have resin versions I am going to cut and file off some of the details to add... well not add much really. I was a little amazed at how few my options for naked female torsos was though. I would have thought I'd have trouble choosing from my model collection, not having to compromise.

I think the Lanyfs will work well though, as they are a little bigger than GW wood elf female torsos, and so should look a little better suited to the horse bodies. If they don't pan out, I will have to see about getting some sculpting dollies from Reaper, or maybe a few well endowed demoness figures, though I have about 10 and they were all too small. Plus side, whatever happens I can make a few spare resin Lanyf bodies in a pinch. So far it doesn't look like anyone is making use of the Rackham molds after they went under, so I might actually have one of the larger collections of them anywhere :(

Boogeyman: You might well have a good point about the wild riders being too big. My thought was that I might not be able to do sufficient damage with just shooting and magic to get any decent points, and will be forced at some point to smash a unit (hopefully crippled) in hand to hand. The idea was to try and grab a flank with 2 ranks of wild riders and cross my fingers that a bunch of Str5 hits and Highborn attacks, coupled with flank and denying ranks, breaks the unit and I run it down, then run away. Not sure how well it would work, but here's hoping.
Plus, the wild riders have a ward save and MR, so hopefully that will help them retain their points, as killing off every last one will be hard. Hopefully.

As to way watchers etc. I am thinking those and some wardancers and tree men will be the next addition. I really like the idea of wardancers (Bloodbowl kind of got me lovin' wood elves) and way watchers seem like a good time. Plus Treekin are probably some of the best MI out there. Downside is that even one infantry unit will really change the way the list plays. That's also the plus side, when it becomes obvious my original idea doesn't work I really like the idea of River Tam forest nymphs rocking out with long curved sabers though. I was tempted to add a wardancer character, but just couldn't figure out what it would do in the list.

Do you have any of the centaurs modelled, Wehr? I'd be interested to see where you're going with them.

If you're going with a treeman, maybe you could also put in some treekin (just one unit to give you a solid anvil to go with all your little "mini hammers"). Not sure how you'd convert them but there's got to be lots of things that could counts-as treekin and treemen.

Getting there... going to try pouring the first female body to be hacked apart and put in the freezer... er... attached to a horse (actually, does that sound better?) this morning. Then roughing out three models, one with male torso, one with female and one with armored female, from the "Amazon torsos" from Micro Arts. I will post in my WoC thread when I get them done.

I am almost (almost) tempted to get some Wulfen from either PP or Rackham (what fun is it if most of your army isn't oop?) to use for Treekin. Alternately I might break down and get the Raging Heroes tree people. Seeing that the manticore turned out well is renewing my faith.
Especially though, my goal is to get the Ultraforge tree woman in the army. I have been wanting that model for a LONG time.