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Hello, I am just starting an Italian Bersaglieri army, and needed some advice. First off, in addition to the required HQ and 2 companies, I have a Bersaglieri Mortar Platoon and a Carro Commando ( still need to get the Semovente 75/18s, though). I am planning on getting some M14/41 tanks, the Lancia da 90/53 as my heavy anti-tank firepower, and some Panzer IIIs through the allied rules.
My first question is this, out of all the upgrades for the panzers ( standard G,H, or J (early), J (late), L or M, N, E or F1, or F2 or G) which ones are best at what or which would compliment my Italian Bersaglieri the most?
My second question is about artillery. I was also looking at the 100/17 howitzers and comparing them to the German options that I can get. I was just wandering, is there any advantage I am not seeing with the 10.5cm leFH18 over the 100/17 howitzer other than smoke bombardment? It is 50 points more for them and my mortars can do the smoke.
And lastly, should I even be considering the artillery with the other things I am planning?
Thanks, Seric

I assume that you play North Africa. With the force organization, you can only take either the Semoventes or German Panzers but not both. The 75/18 is the best vehicles for the Italians in the North Africa & Tunisia settings. It also gives you the greatest bang for the buck. M14/41 is best regarded as light tanks. They should never get into a direct shoot out with any Allies armor. Therefore, if you want to field Semoventes and M14/41's, you should always use full platoon size. If you decide to use the German Panzers, you may as welll employ full strength and forget the M14/41, depending on the size you play.
The choice of the Panzers depends on the setting. In a tournament for North Africa, the organizers may restrict any armor with 7 or 8 above. That means no Tiger or Churchill. In that case, the Panzer III J will be sufficient. I like the E/F1's because they can bombard as well.
The 10.5cm leFH18 has the observer teams built into it and a full platoon has two. The 100/17 only has one at the most and you have to pay extra points for it. The difference is 35 points and you can upgrade the teams to Panzer II's for 10 points each, not bad in my opinion.
Finally, you are running an infantry, not an armor or motorized company. You need artillery units.

wildger wrote:I assume that you play North Africa. With the force organization, you can only take either the Semoventes or German Panzers but not both. The 75/18 is the best vehicles for the Italians in the North Africa & Tunisia settings. It also gives you the greatest bang for the buck. M14/41 is best regarded as light tanks. They should never get into a direct shoot out with any Allies armor. Therefore, if you want to field Semoventes and M14/41's, you should always use full platoon size. If you decide to use the German Panzers, you may as welll employ full strength and forget the M14/41, depending on the size you play.
The choice of the Panzers depends on the setting. In a tournament for North Africa, the organizers may restrict any armor with 7 or 8 above. That means no Tiger or Churchill. In that case, the Panzer III J will be sufficient. I like the E/F1's because they can bombard as well.
The 10.5cm leFH18 has the observer teams built into it and a full platoon has two. The 100/17 only has one at the most and you have to pay extra points for it. The difference is 35 points and you can upgrade the teams to Panzer II's for 10 points each, not bad in my opinion.
Finally, you are running an infantry, not an armor or motorized company. You need artillery units.

I guess I am so used to my tank heavy IG army I was trying to use as many tanks as possible.
I still have one question though, are the Lancia da 90/53 good medium/heavy tank destroyers?
Thanks for the advice and the reminder I'm playing an infantry company, Seric

I'm in the process of building an Esplorante Squadrone for NA (lots of tanks & ACs backed by assault guns). Both my 1000 and 1500pt lists are backed with 2 Lancia da 90/53s. Though I have yet to play a game with them, on paper, they look absolutely brutal. Consider the fact that, for less than a full Carri or Semovente platoon, you are getting 6 AT13 FP3+ shots with a range of 40". Additionally, the Stabilizers give you Bulletproof Cover if you don't move from the front arc. In reality, the 90/53 was actually considered a superior weapon to the feared German 88.

As for artillery, your Mortar squads should be laying down smoke (I have to take at least 2 75/27s in my list just for smoke). Unless you're slow or the table lacks sufficient terrain, 1 battery laying smoke should be enough, so your actual arty can focus on bigger threats. You may also consider captured 25pdrs, considering they have a longer range and turntables.

General Seric wrote:

wildger wrote:I assume that you play North Africa. With the force organization, you can only take either the Semoventes or German Panzers but not both. The 75/18 is the best vehicles for the Italians in the North Africa & Tunisia settings. It also gives you the greatest bang for the buck. M14/41 is best regarded as light tanks. They should never get into a direct shoot out with any Allies armor. Therefore, if you want to field Semoventes and M14/41's, you should always use full platoon size. If you decide to use the German Panzers, you may as welll employ full strength and forget the M14/41, depending on the size you play.
The choice of the Panzers depends on the setting. In a tournament for North Africa, the organizers may restrict any armor with 7 or 8 above. That means no Tiger or Churchill. In that case, the Panzer III J will be sufficient. I like the E/F1's because they can bombard as well.
The 10.5cm leFH18 has the observer teams built into it and a full platoon has two. The 100/17 only has one at the most and you have to pay extra points for it. The difference is 35 points and you can upgrade the teams to Panzer II's for 10 points each, not bad in my opinion.
Finally, you are running an infantry, not an armor or motorized company. You need artillery units.

I guess I am so used to my tank heavy IG army I was trying to use as many tanks as possible.
I still have one question though, are the Lancia da 90/53 good medium/heavy tank destroyers?
Thanks for the advice and the reminder I'm playing an infantry company, Seric

I play Italalian Bersaglieri for my MW North Africa Force.

The Lancias are as good as 88's; they can fire 6 AT13 FP 3+ shots that can cut through Allies armor or dig out entrenched infantry with ease.
I typically use mine as an ambush unit in missions that have that rule and they usually get their kills right away.

For 1500 points, I usually run the following;

HQ with Passglia Bombs
Bersag Platoon- 3 groups with Solothurn AT Rifles and Passaglia Bombs
Bersag Platoon- 2 Groups with Solothurn AT rifles
Demolisher Platoon- 2 squads
2 Lancia da 90/53's
Self Propelled Platoon- 1 Carro Commando, 2 Semovente 75/18's
Howitzer Battery- 4 Skoda 100/17 guns with observer team

It does pretty well against most armies with the exception of Russian Tank hordes.
It's a purist Italian list that doesn't use German allies units, but it's lots of firepower....and since I defend most of the time, I tend to do pretty well.
I have other variations I run.....one that uses all the big guns I can field like the 75/27's with my howitzers and Lancias.

Mortars are my other option as well; as one poster mentioned above, smoke is key if you're lacking the 75/27's to use smoke.

You'll need some artillery since you're primarily an infantry force; the Bersag mortars are good for smoke and you can use the 75/27's and 100/17's.
I use my 100's for the AT10 for direct fire sometimes, but yeah, I think artillery is a must...lol!

ThirdUltra wrote:I play Italalian Bersaglieri for my MW North Africa Force.

The Lancias are as good as 88's; they can fire 6 AT13 FP 3+ shots that can cut through Allies armor or dig out entrenched infantry with ease.
I typically use mine as an ambush unit in missions that have that rule and they usually get their kills right away.

For 1500 points, I usually run the following;

HQ with Passglia Bombs
Bersag Platoon- 3 groups with Solothurn AT Rifles and Passaglia Bombs
Bersag Platoon- 2 Groups with Solothurn AT rifles
Demolisher Platoon- 2 squads
2 Lancia da 90/53's
Self Propelled Platoon- 1 Carro Commando, 2 Semovente 75/18's
Howitzer Battery- 4 Skoda 100/17 guns with observer team

Why so many Solothurn AT rifles and Passglia bombs? That's 95 points at least and your list does not seem to add up to 1500 pts. You can easily add in an extra semnovente 75/18 and equip all with AA's or an gun section of 75/27.

wildger wrote:

ThirdUltra wrote:I play Italalian Bersaglieri for my MW North Africa Force.

The Lancias are as good as 88's; they can fire 6 AT13 FP 3+ shots that can cut through Allies armor or dig out entrenched infantry with ease.
I typically use mine as an ambush unit in missions that have that rule and they usually get their kills right away.

For 1500 points, I usually run the following;

HQ with Passglia Bombs
Bersag Platoon- 3 groups with Solothurn AT Rifles and Passaglia Bombs
Bersag Platoon- 2 Groups with Solothurn AT rifles
Demolisher Platoon- 2 squads
2 Lancia da 90/53's
Self Propelled Platoon- 1 Carro Commando, 2 Semovente 75/18's
Howitzer Battery- 4 Skoda 100/17 guns with observer team

Why so many Solothurn AT rifles and Passglia bombs? That's 95 points at least and your list does not seem to add up to 1500 pts. You can easily add in an extra semnovente 75/18 and equip all with AA's or an gun section of 75/27.

The AT rifles are just more gun-teams that I use to screen my infantry in assaults; it's still decent firepower for the whole platoon when used enmasse with my 47mm gun-teams and the Breda HMG teams.

The Passaglia bombs are really there as my anti-tank deterrent in tank-assaults; my only struggle with them is against Matilda I/II's as their top armor of 2 is just too much.

However, to break down the list correctly, you will see it is, indeed 1500 points;

HQ (30) with Passaglia Bombs (5) = 35

Bersaglieri Platoon - 3 groups (320) with Solothurn AT Rifles (15) and Passaglia Bombs (15) = 350
Bersaglieri Platoon - 2 groups (220) with Solothurn AT Rifles (15) = 235

Demolisher platoon – 2 Demolisher Squads = 200

2 Lancia 90/53’s = 220

Self Propelled Platoon - Semovente 75/18 Carro Commando and 3 x Semovente 75/18’s = 250

Howitzer Battery of 4 Skoda 100/17’s (195) with observer team (15) = 210
Total = 1500

As far as my Semovente's go, they mainly stand-off and provide what AT support they can.
Since they don't survive too long anyways, equipping AA's on them would be a waste.

The list is core-infantry and since I'll be defending most of the time, everything is built around this.
Yes, it's vulnerable to air-support, but tactically, I can thwart this in most cases.

It's alot of infantry/gun-team stands that can dig-in on objectives and provide alot firepower.

ancientsociety wrote:I'm in the process of building an Esplorante Squadrone for NA (lots of tanks & ACs backed by assault guns).

I've put together an interesting Esplorante list (tourney-style) that seems interesting;

1500 points

HQ w/4x L6s
3x platoons of 5x L6s each
Pair of 88s w/extra crew and gun shields
4x 75/27 guns (no observer)
Panzer platoon w/2x IVF2 and 2x IIIJ Late

The 88/56 guns are the ambush unit when needed. The force is very fast and has a decent balance of AT firepower as well.