Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys,

So I made a Wych based list a while ago, and since the new codex I really haven't changed much about it, so I was thinking of a revamp with a few ideas in mind.

Here's the list:


1.5k List

| HQ |

Lelith Hesperax
w/
3x Hekatrix Bloodbrides - Razorflail | Syren - Haywire Grenades, Agonsier = 94pts
w/
Venom

| Elites |

4x Harlequins - 4x Harlequins Kiss | Shadowsheer = 128pts

| Troops |

6x Wyches - Razorflail | Hekatrix - Agoniser = 110pts
Raider

6x Wyches - Razorflail | Hekatrix - Agoniser = 110pts
Raider

6x Wyches - Razorflail | Hekatrix - Agoniser = 110pts
Raider

4x Wyches - Haywire Grenades | Hekatrix - Blast Pistol = 83pts
Venom

| Heavy Support |

3x Ravagers - 3x Night Shields = 345pts

TOTAL = 1445pts


It only equals 1445 because I originally had a Venom for the Harlequins.

A few ideas for the list:

- Possibly substituting the small anti-tank wych squad for a 3-man squad of reavers, upgrading for tank-hunting, or will the 3 ravagers be enough?

- I also really like the sound of mandrakes, and the idea of stealth, so I'd be trying to incorporate them into my list.

- With Hesperax, I really like use her in my army, but imo she seems a bit expensive, as I really only get like around 3 or 4 wounds when using her in CC, compared to say a Hekatrix with an Agoniser who can get around those wounds for quite alot less! So I was thinking possibly chucking in Kherudruakh instead of Lelith, since he is less points, has awesome rules and doesn't need a venom to get around


So yeah, hope its not too much to ask, absolutely any opinions/criticism would be great

Thanks again,

Verboz

I don't really have experience with Lelith, but that looks like a really, really, really tiny target. She's gonna get bogged down in combat with a small support unit and TH/SS Termies will be the bane of you (remember, she doesn't have EW and a 3++ only goes so far.)
Can Harlies infiltrate? Never really took a gander at their rules.
Mandrakes and especially Kheradruakh suffer from the Oh-my-god-awesome-rules-that-don't-really-work syndrome that they've virtually always had. In terms of effectiveness, I'd rather take Wyches over them, as it appears you did.
For the points of a unit of Wyches with Haywires I'd rather use another Elite choice and take some Kaballite Trueborn with Blasters in that Venom. 4 of them with Blasters is 68pts IIRC and they're less risky to use.
3 Ravagers are enough. They have enough power to take out some of the larger vehicles that you see and the Raiders can deal with whatever smaller vehicles are there.

Mr. Self Destruct wrote:I don't really have experience with Lelith, but that looks like a really, really, really tiny target. She's gonna get bogged down in combat with a small support unit and TH/SS Termies will be the bane of you (remember, she doesn't have EW and a 3++ only goes so far.)
Can Harlies infiltrate? Never really took a gander at their rules.
Mandrakes and especially Kheradruakh suffer from the Oh-my-god-awesome-rules-that-don't-really-work syndrome that they've virtually always had. In terms of effectiveness, I'd rather take Wyches over them, as it appears you did.
For the points of a unit of Wyches with Haywires I'd rather use another Elite choice and take some Kaballite Trueborn with Blasters in that Venom. 4 of them with Blasters is 68pts IIRC and they're less risky to use.
3 Ravagers are enough. They have enough power to take out some of the larger vehicles that you see and the Raiders can deal with whatever smaller vehicles are there.

Thanks for the reply

I actually didn't think of the smallness of Lelith's unit, but now when you bring it up I do see the problem.
Harlies I don't believe can infiltrate, which sucks because if they did they would be pretty damn awesome, as assaulting in turn 1 is nice.
With the mandrakes and Khedruakh, I was thinking of using them as a unit which takes out the enemy units that will endanger my raiders, as getting my wyches into CC ASAP is a must.
Regarding wyches with haywires, I think im going to swap them for a reaver squad.

What do you think?

If nothing else, you should definitely find a way to make sure each of those units or at least a few have haywire grenades. Haywire grenades are probably the most effective way of taking out any vehicle.

The pain tokens haemonculi bring with them are important. You should try to fit some in there.

Lilith seems really cool but I can never pick her over the Duke, the Baron, or more haemonculi.

I definitely encourage you to do what seems like the most fun to play and try to make it work for you.

Good luck!

With Kheradruakh, he can join with a unit of mandrakes can't he? Coz someone told me he couldn't...

He can't. He's not an ic.

Verboz wrote:Lelith Hesperax
w/
3x Hekatrix Bloodbrides - Razorflail | Syren - Haywire Grenades, Agonsier = 94pts
w/
Venom

This is an interesting idea. That said, I think you're fielding a few too many small, fragile, expensive assault units. This could probably work, but I don't like it in the milieu of the entire army - if that makes sense.
I'll also add that though I do not dislike this unit I do consider Lelith faaar too expensive to use at 1500. She's just eating up so many points you could basically field another squad of Wyches - is she better than another squad of Wyches?
Finally - I consider the 2nd S.Cannon upgrade option for the Venom obligatory. It will dramatically increase that unit's ability to dakka down anything you need it to.

| Elites |

4x Harlequins - 4x Harlequins Kiss | Shadowsheer = 128pts

A small, expensive assault unit that is footslogging while everything else is mechanized. Eh...I don't get it. This feels sorta tacked onto the army and doesn't seem to add much to your aggressive alpha assault plan. I'd probably drop these and work in an alternate (preferably something to help deal with mech. Or I might use it to expand/improve on your Wych units.

6x Wyches - Razorflail | Hekatrix - Agoniser = 110pts
Raider

I would seriously advocate dropping the Razorflail and adding +1 Wych. Same cost and +1 Wych is pretty much superior in every way.

4x Wyches - Haywire Grenades | Hekatrix - Blast Pistol = 83pts
Venom

This is a cute idea. I personally submit some Warriors with a Blaster in a Venom would be better. They lack the Haywire assault, but gain a large threat radius bubble. Really, if I want to kill something with Haywires I'd want more than 5 Wyches to do it with and would rather see this squad with more members and in a Raider (and with a Agoniser as well so they aren't such pigeonholed specialists)

3x Ravagers - 3x Night Shields = 345pts

Ravishing.

- Possibly substituting the small anti-tank wych squad for a 3-man squad of reavers, upgrading for tank-hunting, or will the 3 ravagers be enough?

In my mind, 3 Ravagers is the base - you always need more anti tank. RJBs can do anti-tank duties pretty well, though I would submit 5 warriors in a Venom w. Blaster will do it as well while also being a scoring unit, tougher to kill, and not costing much more. Your call, or course.

- I also really like the sound of mandrakes, and the idea of stealth, so I'd be trying to incorporate them into my list.

I personally consider Mandrakes in this codex to be about as useful as Mandrakes in the last codex. Not useful at all. I'd stay away personally - Wyches are better in every way.

- With Hesperax, I really like use her in my army, but imo she seems a bit expensive, as I really only get like around 3 or 4 wounds when using her in CC, compared to say a Hekatrix with an Agoniser who can get around those wounds for quite alot less! So I was thinking possibly chucking in Kherudruakh instead of Lelith, since he is less points, has awesome rules and doesn't need a venom to get around

This is kind of a dramatic re-sorting of your list (I'm guessing the Bloodbrides would be dropped as well?) I consider the Decapitator to be less effective than Lelith, and I do consider both of them somewhat pricey for what you're doing. I'd personally suggest a Succubus (super affordable for what she does - which is be a super Hekatrix) or just going to a Haemy to allow a squad of Wyches to start with a pain token.

Hope that helps.
Thor.

Ataraxia wrote:If nothing else, you should definitely find a way to make sure each of those units or at least a few have haywire grenades. Haywire grenades are probably the most effective way of taking out any vehicle.

Well...maybe of stunning/shaking them. Dark Lances are better at 'taking them out'.

Thanks heaps for the reply Thor.

I have encorporated a few of your ideas with this list.

So here is the revised list:

1.5k List

| HQ |

Kheradruakh

| Elites |

5x Harlequins - 5x Harlequins Kiss | Shadowsheer = 159pts

9x Mandrakes

| Troops |

7x Wyches | Hekatrix - Agoniser = 110pts
Raider

7x Wyches | Hekatrix - Agoniser = 110pts
Raider

7x Wyches | Hekatrix - Agoniser = 110pts
Raider

6x Wyches - Haywire Grenades | Hekatrix - Blast Pistol = 127pts
Venom

| Heavy Support |

3x Ravagers - 3x Night Shields = 345pts

TOTAL = 1467pts

One of the reasons for the Mandrakes are that my main opponents are Eldar and SM, and they always have atleast two anti-tank units sitting deepish in their deployment zone as they know my list pretty well, which is usually a hassle for me as as my raiders approach they cop quite alot of anti-tank fire. So with the mandrakes my plan was to use the infiltrate move to get as close to the enemy as possible, then take down the units that would endager my raiders.

As for Kherudruakh, I just really like the model I guess, the rules and fluff, and as I'm having a game tomorrow I'm going to try him out and see how he goes. With the Harlequins its basically the same story, and if I bring them in from reserve mid-game they won't cop much fire, and they can take out any enemies close to my deployment zone, or on an objective or something like that. Also, the Shadowseer's Veil of Tears will improve it's survivability against shooting attacks.