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Made in us
Black Templar Recruit Undergoing Surgeries



Ann Arbor, MI

I'm tooling around with some ideas for a BT army, and I'm really fond of the idea of foot units, especially because the 5th edition meta is so fixated on mechanized armies. but I'm not sure how to make it work. Here's the list I came up with:
HQ:
Emperor's Champion w/ Accept Any Challenge - 140
Chaplain Grimaldus - 195

Elites:
5 Sword Brethren Terminators w/ 2x Cyclone Missile Launchers, 1x Chainfist, Tank Hunters - 270
5 Sword Brethren Terminators w/ 2x Cyclone Missile Launchers, 1x Chainfist Tank Hunters - 270

Troops:
10x Initiates; 10x Neophytes; 18x BP/CCW; 1x Meltagun; 1x Power Fist; Frag Grenades - 305
10x Initiates; 10x Neophytes; 18x BP/CCW; 1x Meltagun; 1x Power Fist; Frag Grenades - 305
10x Initiates; 10x Neophytes; 18x BP/CCW; 1x Meltagun; 1x Power Fist; Frag Grenades - 305

Fast Attack:
Land Speeder Typhoon - 70
Land Speeder Typhoon - 70
Land Speeder Typhoon - 70

Is a foot BT list even viable? Of all the Marine books, it seems like the most capable of pulling this off, but I'm not sure if it will really work in a competitive environment. If it is workable how can this list be tweaked to make it work best? I'm looking for well reasoned advice backed by logical competitive standpoints and gaming experience.
   
Made in us
Long-Range Black Templar Land Speeder Pilot




Indiana

Slogging sucks, unless those missiles do some serious damage early on(they can) your footmen will get shot to hell. CCW Crusaders are much more efficient with Rhinos.

My Armies:
- Death Wing and Green Wing
- Tacticals and Devastators
- Retired

 
   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope





Slogging CAN work, they need crusader seals and more immediate threatening targets so that the blobs survive to make it across the board. Crusader Seals are the most important upgrade for a foot BT army. You only need to give 2 squads seals, as the EC will confer his seal to one unit.. even taking 2 naked chaplains with seals instead of grimauldus isnt a bad idea, yes grim has some cool gimmicks, but 195 is steep when you can get 2 chaplains for just about the same.

If you dont want to use reg chaplains I would still drop grimauldus and one of the typhoons in order to grab another CML terminator unit, although hiding an assault terminator unit in the blob for a hard(er) hitting unit might do some good as well. Either heavy TH/SS or heavy PLC with FC.

You are right when you say that Templars are probably the most viable source of footslogging marines. GK do it well too, but they are on the other side of the spectrum.


7th Back in Action!
6th 2000+
5th 2000+ retired
4th 2000+ retired
3rd 2000+ retired 
   
Made in us
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer





Tacoma, Washington

on the contrary, foot slogging works well if pulled off correctly, and the OP is on his way to doing just that.

first off I would remove grimauldus as he is made redundant with AAC, instead I would use two castelans who give leadership nine across the board and will assist the crusaders they are with immensely in anti tank and culling hoards, the strategy is pretty straightforward with this list so i will let it ride on its merits alone.

HQ
castelan pair of lightning claws frag grenades melta bombs 101
castelan pair of lightning claws frag grenades melta bombs 101
emperor's champion w/ aacnmtc 140

Troops
crusader squad, 10 power fist melta gun x10 neophytes emperor's champion 285
crusader squad, 10 power fist melta gun x10 neophytes castelan 285
crusader squad, 10 power fist melta gun x10 neophytes castelan 285

Elites
terminator squad, 5 x2 cyclone missile launchers tank hunters 265
terminator squad, 5 x2 cyclone missile launchers tank hunters 265

Fast Attack
land speeder, 1 typhoon missile launcher 70
land speeder, 1 typhoon missile launcher 70
land speeder, 1 typhoon missile launcher 70

Points Summary:
HQ: 342
Troops: 855
Elites: 530
Fast Attack: 210
Heavy Support: 0
Total: 1937

You may use anything I post, just remember to give me credit if used somewhere else. 
   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope





Don't count helbrecht out of the equation either. Even though his crusader-command squad hybrid is not scoring, it packs one hell of a punch in combat considering it gives Helbrecht furious charge. Take a look at his CC stats and then add in FC.. not much in the game can take a charge from that unit and survive. It is a pretty hefty point sink (500+ pts tooled out) but if used properly they will make their points back. Its that nasty of a unit.

I have never been a fan of Land Speeders, for less points than the 3 speeders, you can get 3 Bikes with MeltaGuns plus an Attack Bike with a Multi-Melta. definitely a more survivable and reliable anti-tank option. In the 2000pt arena, AV14 is prevelant and missle launchers have a hard time taking out AV14.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/23 04:15:27


7th Back in Action!
6th 2000+
5th 2000+ retired
4th 2000+ retired
3rd 2000+ retired 
   
Made in us
Implacable Black Templar Initiate




Birmingham, AL

I have had a fair amount of success with a foot-slogging list. Rightous zeal gets you moving accross the board, crusader seals help a lot, and loads of neophytes ensure you have bodies to soak up some fire until you can get into combat. I usually run a marshal for LD 10 and grimaldus for his unmatched zeal and extra 3" move in my list.

4000+pts 100% painted
Undivided 2500pts 100% painted
DeathSkullz 2000pts 95% painted
Daemons 1250pts 80% painted 
   
Made in us
Long-Range Black Templar Land Speeder Pilot




Indiana

Just wondering, how would any of these slogging lists score? 3 big squads that will need to go out and fight, who's at home with the objective? Part of the reason I play gun line MSU is because I can park a 5man Crusader squad on a home objective and it can still participate in the game.

My Armies:
- Death Wing and Green Wing
- Tacticals and Devastators
- Retired

 
   
Made in gb
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions





Qo'noS

You'll need some chaplains so that they can guide the Huge squads. I think they come with seals as well, but I'll have to check my codex.

'I once saw a man kill another with only a sock. It was slow and painful to watch...'

Darnath Lysander: The Man, The Mystery, The Legend
 
   
Made in us
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer





Tacoma, Washington

Chaplains in foot slogging is a waste, you need aac and that nulifies their biggest boon, just don't zeal, zeal as currently interpreted is an up to your die roll, so if the direction does not suit you, no worries.

Foot slogging lists like this are all or nothing, they need to take the enemy out, and remember, annihilation is always a victory condition.

Yeah the 3 inch move is Nice but again 195 points is 1/10th of your points, that is a lot for what you get.

Speedier will be fine, these guys don't need to come up front either, just sit back and shoot out of range of their melta.

You may use anything I post, just remember to give me credit if used somewhere else. 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

Chaplains allow initiates to reroll too you know. They also make your squad fearless, which means auto-passing zeal tests, allow you to zeal towards anyone and gives you crusader seals and the option to purchase cenobytes. With the Champion and Grimaldus, you've got one squad that is fearless (could be more than one, but you're going to run out of room if you run them that close to eachother), one squad that has Ld10 from the Champion and one squad that's gak outta luck. You also get what could be one of the most amazing pieces of wargear for this kind of list: A holy relic. While they depend on you rolling decently on the range test, holy relics turn one of your assault phases into pure hilarity.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
Black Templar Recruit Undergoing Surgeries



Ann Arbor, MI

My reasoning for Grimaldus is that his unmatched zeal ability extends in a 6" bubble so while I wouldn't be so keen on bunching my blobs up so close that all three could benefit and thus become battle cannon bait, he could reasonably provide the benefits of that ability to his own unit and the one without the Emperor's Champion without them getting too bunched up.

Adding on to that the holy relic and the three servitors seems like a decent deal to me. The servitors could be a double-edged sword though, as they might cause Grimaldus' unit to outpace the other one, leaving them in the dust, especially without seals. That makes me more inclined to run a pair of Reclusiarchs, who for five points less bring seals, unmatched zeal, and litanies to both units.

Movac brings up a good point about scoring though, would it be too unreasonable to make space for a small unit with a lascannon or some other long-range gun to sit on objectives in my deployment zone? The list might look like this:

HQ:
Emperor's Champion w/ Accept Any Challenge – 140
Reclusiarch w/ Meltabombs – 100
Reclusiarch w/ Meltabombs – 100

Troops:
10x Initiates, 10x Neophytes; 18x BP&CCW, 1x Meltagun, 1x Power Fist – 285
10x Initiates, 10x Neophytes; 18x BP&CCW, 1x Meltagun, 1x Power Fist – 285
10x Initiates, 10x Neophytes; 18x BP&CCW, 1x Meltagun, 1x Power Fist – 285
5x Initiates; 1x Lascannon – 95


Elites:
5x Terminators; 2x Cyclone Missile Launchers, 1x Chainfist, Tank Hunters – 270
5x Terminators; 2x Cyclone Missile Launchers, 1x Chainfist, Tank Hunters – 270

Fast Attack:
Land Speeder Typhoon w/ Multi-Melta – 85
Land Speeder Typhoon w/ Multi-Melta – 85

So I lose one speeder, but gain a lascannon and two multi-meltas. Or I could drop the typhoon launchers altogether and keep the multi-meltas, but it seems nice to be able to choose between quality and quantity (or take both, if I'm close enough).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/23 21:33:53


 
   
 
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