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Hi, I am unsure of what the best course of action is. I will either put ten death company marines in my stormraven, alongside my death company furioso. Or, i shall put in five jump pack marines with Lemartes, alongside the DC furioso. Which do you think will be more effective?

And also, can Lemartes join a normal Death Company squad even though he has a jump pack; because it says nowhere he cannot, but it doesn't make much sense for him to be able to...

Thanks in advance

*edit* spelling


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I could really do with a hand here, guys!

Lemartes can join a DC unit that doesn't have packs. They can only go in a Stormraven, and will move like normal infantry, but otherwise it's fine.

As for whether 5 DC w/ Packs + Lemartes is better than 10 DC with no add-ons, let's run the numbers. I assume Lemartes hasn't taken a wound, and all DC marines are armed with BP+CS. Let's assume the opponents have WS4.

First, 5 DC with packs and Lemartes costs 325, while 10 DC costs 200.

On the charge vs. T4

5+Lemartes: 4 Power Weapon attacks, 20 regular attacks = 3 Power Weapon wounds, 13 regular wounds
10: 40 regular attacks = 13 regular wounds

The squad with Lemartes hits harder, but it should, as it cost more than 50% more. If you added a standard Chaplain to the 10 man Squad, you'd have 3 Power Weapon wounds and 26 regular wounds, and you could toss in a Power Fist to get the points to match.

As I see it, the 10 man squad is better. With more bodies, coming out of a Stormraven you have a decent chance to multi-charge a couple of vehicles or a couple of squishy units and get big value on that first charge. The Lemartes squad will be more of a threat in subsequent turns, but they still can't catch a fast vehicle and can be kited around like the standard squad, albeit by fewer things. They are also much more survivable, of course, and allow you to take 2 DC Dreads instead of 1.

By the way, if you're going to do this, I hope you have at least one more Stormraven in the army, as this Stormraven + DC Dread + DC combo is going to end up being 500 points down the drain fairly frequently. If you have another Stormraven with a Dread and something else nasty inside, you can at least make the sacrifice accomplish something. If you are going to take a Death Company, though, this is the way to do it.

I have to agree with him. I have no experience whatsoever with SM's, but based off of what I know about what you are asking, I would definitely go with the 10 man squad, and I think you said the group has a Furioso with them. A potent force by my reckoning. And keeping the Stormraven nearby for fire support would definitely help.

Lemartes can shine when he gets the chance. Over the course of 4 games, his kill count has approached the triple digits for me. And in one of those games, he didn't even get a single kill.

I run lemartes, 8 death company and no jumppacks, and dante in a storm raven.

the tactical precision allows you to drop them from the storm raven without fear of scatter, and dantes hit and run allows you a bit more mobillity.

Thanks guys, my mind is made up! 10 man squad with lemartes, methinks! But I will think about getting another stormraven fairly soon, as well!

What about an all Death Company force, I know there's no scoring but they seem killy enough to make up.

Each 10 man squad could kill a unit a turn assuming they get the charge. But how would they get there? Can't take 6 stormravens, land raiders would cost too much, jumpacks are expensive too, rhinos would only last one turn.

sadly the 8 dc dante and lemartes thing dosent work. dante's "tactical precision" rule states the unit has to have jump packs. and tho the stormraven can take jump pack troops they take up 2 slots. with a max capacity of 12. you have to slim the squad to 4 dc's lemartes and dante.

tho i do like ur thinking buddy

If you wanne runn DC I would sugest getting autocannon dreadnoughts for HS choise as they can "hunt" down rogue skimmers and rhinos who try to deny you a victory or are trying to kite your DK.

Perhaps something like

HQ
Astrarath the grimm

Body guard squad with jump packs and melta (so you can get the charge)

Troops
4 DK units of 7 (with a hammer) in rhinos
2 DK dreadnoughts

FA: Land speeders or attack bike with MM

HS:
2-3 Dreadnoughts with autocannons.

optionaly grab drop pod on all units and deploy half of the army on the table, and droping full DP in first wave and emty in second wave (If he reserves everything then drop down dreadnoughts and have DK come inn in second wave.)

rik wrote:sadly the 8 dc dante and lemartes thing dosent work. dante's "tactical precision" rule states the unit has to have jump packs. and tho the stormraven can take jump pack troops they take up 2 slots. with a max capacity of 12. you have to slim the squad to 4 dc's lemartes and dante.

tho i do like ur thinking buddy

boooo.. i guess that stops the skies of blood thing! - was looking forward to trying it out some time but it was more gravy.

I use the dc without jump packs as the hit and run doesnt require it and you get that much more choppy goodness into the storm raven.

I like mrEconomics suggestion about the seperate Stormraven. Once people know what's in that stormraven they would probably concentrate fire on it. You have a second stormraven with a second fleet dreadnought with 2 blood talons, they are going to have to choose 1, a lot killy or a little less a lot killy.

@Osyr: I actually ran a 26 man 2 Dreadnought DC list at a teams tournament a few weeks ago. I was teamed with an Ork player. It was quite fun watching people run away from the huge almost invincible wall coming at them. They ate a lot that day. The problem was that afterwards I felt I was seriously lacking anything else but kill power. I left it to my Ork team mate to do all the strategy planning cause I only had 1 strategy, get across the field. While it was fun, I left feeling a little empty inside.

About how to get them across the board, you load 9 of them + a chaplain up in a rhino and zoom 18 inches across the board. If it blows up what's a vehcile explosion going to do to a feels no pain, fearless, 3+ armor save? IF you lose any it'll be 1 maybe 2, still plenty to charge with.

Niiai wrote: optionaly grab drop pod on all units and deploy half of the army on the table, and droping full DP in first wave and emty in second wave (If he reserves everything then drop down dreadnoughts and have DK come inn in second wave.)

You can't take an empty DP, they're dedicated transports, so have to be taken with a unit and that unit must be deployed in them, if my grasp of the dedicated transport rules are correct...


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Hang on, i think i get what you mean now... If you don't have to send your unit onto the table in the dedicated transport...

There was a guy on warser that ran an all DC army... I must say I'm tempted.. I ran a proxy army (just a reclusiarch not astaroth) but the rage has you running like a clown. That said one guy with a power weapon can eat whole squads by himself.

I like the idea of a DC army led by a chaplain... the damned company essentially... doing suicide missions that no one else can afford to undertake.

What i have found to work with death company is 7 dudes in a rhino with 2 power weapons and a p fist. The squad with the rhino is 245 and you can control the squad until you choose to get out. Add a chaplin instead of Lemartes to the squad and now you have 8 str. 5 power weapon attacks with reroll to hit on the charge and thats not including the chaplin. Not much can stand up to that.

Sledgio wrote:

Niiai wrote: optionaly grab drop pod on all units and deploy half of the army on the table, and droping full DP in first wave and emty in second wave (If he reserves everything then drop down dreadnoughts and have DK come inn in second wave.)

You can't take an empty DP, they're dedicated transports, so have to be taken with a unit and that unit must be deployed in them, if my grasp of the dedicated transport rules are correct...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hang on, i think i get what you mean now... If you don't have to send your unit onto the table in the dedicated transport...

I had a dog and Bingo was his name. :-)

Space wolves usualy do the trick very well with long fangs and dakka dreadnoughts who do not need drop pods. However, there is something about having cans of whop ass death companies land next to your units witch is just bad. The best option is probably to charge them, and that is still a loose loose sitiation, and what the heck do you do against those blood claws on the dreadnoughts?! a smart oponent will probably place his army in reserves and there is there that the autocannon suport dreadnoughts come into play. :-)

Hmmm... These drop pod tactics are sounding better by the minute!!

Phototoxin wrote:There was a guy on warser that ran an all DC army... I must say I'm tempted.. I ran a proxy army (just a reclusiarch not astaroth) but the rage has you running like a clown. That said one guy with a power weapon can eat whole squads by himself.

I like the idea of a DC army led by a chaplain... the damned company essentially... doing suicide missions that no one else can afford to undertake.

An all DC army is really 1 faceted and something you should never bring to a tournament. I love them, but their rage is a draw back.

Having said that, I personally have not had a problem using them in 10+ units with 4 PWs and a PF. I deploy them behind another unit and behind impassible terrain so they have to move around things. When I actually do have people moving me around like say into a dread or other vehicle, I have 10+ men still alive that shoot their bolters at the vehicle glancing on 6's if its an ork vehicle or the back armor of most other vehicles, that's 20 shots. I'm going to glance at least once or twice. Then I assault with a power fist and CC weapons. At S5 they glance on 5's. In my experience they are a great hammer to have in your army. The only thing is they are pricey, especially with jump packs. So I tend to have them hoofing it across the board, but it takes 2 or 3 turns for them to make contact, but when they do they slaughter just about everything.

To keep in line with the OP, though, having them in a transport is the best option. I like Lemartes, but Fury Unbound and Descent of Angels is all you are actually getting for those extra chunk of points. A chaplain gives the exact same benefit to the DC that Lemartes does for cheaper.

I agree with you on that final point, Mordechai, but fury unbound makes lemartes slightly AWESOME! 7 S6 attacks on the charge, that's quite nasty, and I think that makes him worth the points.