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Okay,

Have been playing around with my mantic dwarves in Warhammer FB. Love the models just can't seem to get a good list. Tell me what you think of this list: Thanks

Unnamed2500 Pts - Dwarfs Army

1 Dwarf Lord @ 243.0 Pts
General; Gromril Armour; Shield
Runic Weapon [50.0]
Rune of Cleaving
Rune of Fury
Rune of Speed
Runic Talisman [20.0]
Rune of Brotherhood
Runic Armour [25.0]
Master Rune of Gromril
1 Runesmith @ 122.0 Pts
Gromril Armour; Shield
Runic Talisman [50.0]
Rune of Spellbreaking (x2)
1 Runesmith @ 147.0 Pts
Gromril Armour; Shield
Runic Talisman [75.0]
Master Rune of Balance
Rune of Spellbreaking
1 Thane @ 240.0 Pts
Gromril Armour; Battle Standard
Runic Banner [150.0]
Master Rune of Valaya
Rune of Slowness
29 Rangers @ 445.0 Pts
Great Weapon; Rangers; Crossbow; Light Armour; Standard; Musician
1 Veteran @ [10.0] Pts
29 Miners @ 355.0 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Standard; Musician
1 Prospector @ [10.0] Pts
29 Quarrellers @ 415.0 Pts
Great Weapon; Crossbow; Light Armour; Standard; Musician
1 Veteran @ [10.0] Pt
1 Grudge Thrower @ 105.0 Pts
Engineering Runes [25.0]
Rune of Penetrating
1 Cannon @ 95.0 Pts
Engineering Runes [5.0]
Rune of Burning
1 Cannon @ 90.0 Pts
1 Organ Gun @ 120.0 Pts
1 Organ Gun @ 120.0 Pts





Models in Army: 114


Total Army Cost: 2497.0

Don't have my dwarf book near me but let me hit on a few things. Grudge Thrower, Rune of Accuracy is a must, Cannons, Rune of Forging is a must don't bring these if you don't have these runes. I typically like my BSB tooled for defense as he is very very important, MRoGromil, RoResistance, RoPreservation and a shield is a must. Runesmiths look good try and fit at least a RoStone on them 5pts for +1 armor save is a no brainer. Dwarf lords are generally offensive beasts or defensive beasts I usally don't see them tooled for both, most offensive builds use shield bearers they are cheap and effective, also they are generally put with hammerers as it gives them a boost. Everything else looks good, Miner unit is a bit large to not have a steam drill, if you want them in the rear to take out warmachines better off taking naked units of 6 not a large unit, if you are facing Ogres or WoC that constantly press forward you'll show up turn 3-5 with no one to fight.

Hello, looking at your list there are some changes that i have found for my dwarves that might help you...

1st: is your dwarf lord, Dwarves aren't fast but were tough and hit hard so a good weapon set up is a great weapon with MR kraag grim and cleaving or might giving him the str to kill the big baddies and personally I wouldn't put him anywhere else but on the front lines so no brotherhood, and for a good save, take either 2 runes of iron or a MR of spite a ward save is a MUST, and if possible preservation and furnace if possible lots of flaming attacks around.

2nd Hargus was totally right with the Accuracy for the Grudge throwers and forging for cannons, reliability is all we Dwarves got over other armies.

3rd is quarrelers are nice for rangers, but at the core of your army you might want to try running blocks of 30 warriors with great weapons, giving you either ranks of 5 or 6 depending on if you want more attacks or to get stubborn, the miners are nice but i wouldn't have a units over 10, allowing you to fight warmachines and if they die, no biggie cause they were cheap

4th: Your rune smith has all the right runes, if possible if you could get a rune lord you magical defense would be better but the spellbreaking and MR balance is great, Your Battle standard bearer doesn't need the MR of Valaya, the +2 is nice but according to other Dwarf players its not worth the 100pts you spend on it... cause there's next to no remains in play spells and the rune of slowness is good but not worth your BSB being susceptible to random guys attacking him, I lately equip him with a rune of might, 2 runes of iron, rune of pres. and rune of stone, might is for those big baddies trying to break you, you'll be Initiative 3 and str 8

hope these help, GL with your list

okay here is the updated verison, thoughts?

1 Dwarf Lord @ 223.0 Pts
General; Shieldbearers; Gromril Armour; Shield
Runic Weapon [50.0]
Rune of Cleaving
Rune of Fury
Rune of Speed
#Shield Bearer [0.0]

1 2 Shield Bearers @ [0.0] Pts

1 Runesmith @ 127.0 Pts
Gromril Armour; Shield
Runic Talisman [50.0]
Rune of Spellbreaking (x2)
Runic Armour [5.0]
Rune of Stone

1 Runesmith @ 147.0 Pts
Gromril Armour; Shield
Runic Talisman [75.0]
Master Rune of Balance
Rune of Spellbreaking

1 Thane @ 165.0 Pts
Gromril Armour; Battle Standard
Runic Armour [55.0]
Rune of Iron
Rune of Preservation
Rune of Resistance
Runic Weapon [20.0]
Rune of Striking (x2)

30 Quarrellers @ 405.0 Pts
Great Weapon; Crossbow; Light Armour; Standard; Musician

30 Quarrellers @ 405.0 Pts
Great Weapon; Crossbow; Light Armour; Standard; Musician

30 Hammerers @ 378.0 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Standard; Musician

4 Miners @ 90.0 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour
1 Prospector @ [35.0] Pts
Steamdrill

1 Grudge Thrower @ 130.0 Pts
Engineering Runes [50.0]
Rune of Accuracy
Rune of Penetrating

3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Light Armour

1 Cannon @ 100.0 Pts
Engineering Runes [10.0]
Rune of Reloading

3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Light Armour

1 Cannon @ 90.0 Pts

3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Light Armour

1 Organ Gun @ 120.0 Pts


3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Light Armour

1 Organ Gun @ 120.0 Pts


3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Light Armour

Models in Army: 120

I see a few more things: I wonder why you would want 2 blocks of GW quarrelers... I mean its nice, but I think one unit of rangers is enough, so personally I would change the quarrelers into common warriors (with GW ofc). So you save a few points there, which I would spend on your cannons or grudgethrowers. Grudgethrowers with a str5 template are real kickass, and the rune of forging makes a cannon much more reliable. I also doubt the use of the unit of 4 miners. But its up to you to decide ofc

Better? Thoughts and ideas? Thanks guys for all of the input. This has really been helping my army comp and gaming.



1 Dwarf Lord @ 278.0 Pts
General; Shieldbearers; Gromril Armour; Shield
#Shield Bearer [0.0]
Runic Weapon [50.0]
Rune of Cleaving
Rune of Fury
Rune of Speed
Runic Armour [50.0]
Master Rune of Adamant
Rune of Stone
Runic Talisman [5.0]
Rune of the Furnace
1 2 Shield Bearers @ [0.0] Pts

1 Thane @ 137.0 Pts
Gromril Armour; Shield
Runic Weapon [35.0]
Rune of Fury
Rune of Speed (x2)
Runic Talisman [15.0]
Rune of Warding
Runic Armour [20.0]
Rune of Preservation
Rune of Stone

1 Runesmith @ 147.0 Pts
Gromril Armour; Shield
Runic Talisman [50.0]
Rune of Spellbreaking (x2)
Runic Armour [25.0]
Master Rune of Gromril

22 Hammerers @ 331.0 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Standard; Musician
Runic Banner [25.0]
Rune of Battle
1 Gate Keeper @ [12.0] Pts

24 Warriors @ 275.0 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Standard; Musician
1 Veteran @ [10.0] Pts

24 Warriors @ 275.0 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Standard; Musician
1 Veteran @ [10.0] Pts

14 Quarrellers @ 220.0 Pts
Great Weapon; Crossbow; Light Armour; Standard; Musician
1 Veteran @ [10.0] Pts

14 Quarrellers @ 220.0 Pts
Great Weapon; Crossbow; Light Armour; Standard; Musician
1 Veteran @ [10.0] Pts

14 Rangers @ 235.0 Pts
Great Weapon; Rangers; Crossbow; Light Armour; Standard; Musician
1 Veteran @ [10.0] Pts

1 Cannon @ 100.0 Pts
Engineering Runes [10.0]
Rune of Reloading


1 Grudge Thrower @ 155.0 Pts
Engineering Runes [75.0]
Rune of Accuracy
Rune of Penetrating (x2)


1 Cannon @ 125.0 Pts
Engineering Runes [35.0]
Rune of Forging


Models in Army: 134


Total Army Cost: 2498.0

Im not a fan of the rune of adamant as normal stuff can always wound you on 6's i would rather get resistance and preservation to keep you safe from killing blow.

With the thane i would just make him a bsb and drop the runic weapon and give him rune of gromril/resistance for the 1+ reroll, and give the runesmith a shield/rune of stone for a 2+.

I like the thought of this many great weapons and still quite a nice amount of shooting i would say organ guns are so amazing if you could squeeze 1 in it would help.

okay. So, I like the ideas and have put into good use.
The only way to get the organ gun in the list was to drop the unit champs from all of the core units and hammers.
The hammers, and warriors x2 will have the characters to take up the slack for the loss of unit champs.
I think the quarrerlers will be okay without the champs. Just have to keep them close to the BSB for rerolls.

What I would suggest IF you would really want to squeeze the organ gun in: drop one entire unit of GW quarrelers (feels like I'm repeating myself :p)

I personally would always field Thunderers. I consider the +1 to hit and armor piercing to be better than the extra range.

Ah, but is it better than the extra range and the extra points?

Beyond that, a few points:

- you've got a lot of points sunk into that Dwarf Lord. With such small-ish unit sizes, I'm not sure that's the best plan, since (1) you could use a lot of his points to add more bodies, and (2) there's no big bunker for characters to hide in, so the middle-sized units they do go with become the primary targets.

Point for point, a Dwarf Lord's equivalent in Warriors with great weapons is usually a better choice; you get more offensive and defensive power (lots of attacks, lots of wounds, more ranks for Steadfast, etc.). But ya' gotta' have a general somewheres, so I see what you're doing. First, I'd drop all the Weapon Runes and give him a great weapon. S6 for 6pts.
If you really like a magic weapon, I'd consider Kragg the Grimm instead of Cleaving (+2 versus +1) and Snorri Spanglehelm instead of Fury (mathematically slightly better).
As for Armour Runes...Adamant decreases wounds caused by S4, S5, S6, and S7 attacks by 16%. Steel decreases wounds caused by S6 attacks by 16%, S7 by 32%, S8 by 48%, and so on. Against S5 and lower, your armour should be enough to save you in most cases. Against S8 and more, the Rune of Adamant won't help anyway. That's my pitch. Otherwise, Resistance reduces wounds by most attacks by half, and it costs a lot less.
You've also got enough armour for a 0+ save, so you might as well drop Stone unless you get a great weapon.
Talisman Runes: I'm sure I'm not the only one to suggest the Master Rune of Spite.


- your BSB: can't have a shield. Also, I think I'd try to make him more all-around survivable than the specifics you've got going here. I'd probably go with Cleaving before Fury, and I'd probably max out Armour and Talisman runes before that.
I'd probably give the BSB the Master Rune o' Gromil before I'd give it to the Runesmith, since one can't use a shield and the other can. I've heard a lot of people suggest Spite on the BSB, since he's more important than your general, but if you want a Ward on both, the only way I see it happening without too much sacrifice is sticking the BSB with two Runes of Iron for a 5+. He won't be immune to Killing Blow, but a 1+/5+ is pretty durable.

- the Runesmith: again, you've got a 0+ Armour potential, but the max. is only 1+, so I'd drop Gromil for Stone, and you've got a 2+/6+ Parry. I prefer Balance over Spellbreaking, since taking away dice decreases the chances of IF, which forms the biggest threat in 8th magic, but I see the value of both.

- aside from being, as I said (much) earlier, on the small side, I think your infantry can work, and well.

- I'm not sure how useful Reloading is on a Cannon anymore. For 25pts more, you could just cut the number of misfires (and thus, the number of times you can't shoot next turn) in half (and for 5pts more than that, you can make it Burning to avoid repetition).

- Organ Guns are one of the best ways to protect your war machines from Gutter Runners, Chameleon Skinks, etc. But they're 120pts. And, beyond that, I am relatively confident that a Grudge Thrower is better. It's much, much more versatile, has a greater capacity for destruction, and a far superior range.
If you want another way to keep your points invested in the Big Guns safe, I'd consider Engineers with a Brace of Pistols.

...okay. I'm done. Good luck.

Okay,

After several great suggestions here is the new verison. Thoughts? Thanks!

1 * Dwarf Lord @ 291.0 Pts
General; Shieldbearers; Great Weapon
#Shield Bearer [0.0]
Runic Talisman [45.0]
Master Rune of Spite
Runic Armour [25.0]
Rune of Resistance
Runic Weapon [45.0]
Master Rune of Kragg the Grim
Rune of Snorri Spangelheim
2 Shield Bearers @ [0.0] Pts

1 Thane @ 150.0 Pts
Battle Standard
Runic Armour [55.0]
Master Rune of Gromril
Rune of Iron (x2)
Runic Weapon [5.0]
Rune of Speed

1 Runesmith @ 127.0 Pts
Shield
Runic Armour [5.0]
Rune of Stone
Runic Talisman [50.0]
Rune of Spellbreaking (x2)

23 Hammerers @ 294.0 Pts
24 Warriors @ 255.0 Pts
GW
24 Warriors @ 255.0 Pts
GW
15 Quarrellers @ 210.0 Pts
GW
15 Quarrellers @ 210.0 Pts
GW
15 Quarrellers @ 210.0 Pts
GW
1 Grudge Thrower @ 155.0 Pts
Engineering Runes [75.0]
Rune of Accuracy
Rune of Penetrating (x2)
1 Cannon @ 95.0 Pts
Engineering Runes [5.0]
Rune of Burning
1 Cannon @ 125.0 Pts
Engineering Runes [35.0]
Rune of Forging
1 Organ Gun @ 120.0 Pts
Misfire Chart

Models in Army: 136