Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'll presage this by mentioning that I've been out of the 40k world for almost 2yrs, and alot has changed since then.  I still have my 13th Company army that I'm resurrecting, and I'ld like to see what's the story on them, as I didn't see any threads discussing tactics.  Given the many changes and advancements in the game since 3rd+TAR, it seems much more intimidating to take the field now.  Merely facing 6 Tornados regularly has gotten me a bit rattled.  Mauleed-style Marines, a Genestealer Horde, and Daemonbomb Black Legion are my main 'competitive' opponents.  I also face a decent vehicle-heavy USF, Sister Swarm, mish-mashed Necrons, and LRC-Black Templars.

So what's the deal?  It seems in this new fast firepower world that my hideously expensive models will be outgunned with no recourse to fighting back.  The Scout rule helps, insomuch that I have a fighting chance every 3rd game or so, or I can massacre 'lesser' armies every 3rd game.  I've been thinking about Storm Claw bikers as a replacement to my beloved 3PF Storm Claws, as their lack of speed seems to be critically fatal.  But Bikes pose their own problems.  Should I attach them to my Lord?  Should I take more F.Wolves instead?  I'm really not liking the new edition very much at all...

Oh yeah, my typical 1500pt list (most common size game here):
Wolf Lord on Bike- Close Combat Nuke
Rune Priest in TDA- Bolter/Meltagun variety
10 Storm Claws-3PFs, 2PPs
10 Grey Slayers-2PGs, 1PF
8 Grey Slayers- 2MGs, 1PF
14 F.Wolves
Long Fangs- 2MLs, 1PC, 1LC

I really can't comment much because I don't play SW, and I haven't played a game of 40k since August, but I can tell you that Longfangs are, in three words or less, "Too damned expensive." Even if you get yourself into some nice 4+ cover, the almost total loss of ablative wounds is killer. And your one ablative wound is already 36 pts, IIRC. Those just aren't good odds.

The problem is that they're too expensive, but the ONLY heavy weapons in the army.  Besides, expensive is relative when your line troopers cost 21pts.  The only other decent tank-killers are bike mounted Meltagunners, which also aren't cheap.  The army plays entirely differently from any other Marine army out there except -maybe- Alpha Legion.

I wonder if it's too much of a niche army for any expert regulars to comment on...

Hey there!

They're viable. There is still a whole lotta love for them out there. I hope no one minds the link to another site, but as warseer provides us with most of our news and rumours, I really can't feel bad.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275

This thread has 13 pages of tactica for the 13th co. 13th company work quite differently nowadays. At 1500pts your compulsory choices are 3 squads of fen risian wolves at 15 wolves a squad. They're relatively cheap, and most people are turned off by their non existent armour. Don't be. Sure, no save, but they hit as hard as an assault marine and they get into combat (if you're lucky) first turn.

Stormclaws are generally accepted to be better than wulfen. Slayers are good, and you want numbers, so generally take 3-4 squads.

Long fangs if taken at all are generally used with 4 meltas and a gating priest, but you can get all this info plus more from the thread provided. Good luck!

Chuck

I think Chuckyhol has the gist of it.

I've played against 13th company before and it's all about assault. The wolves will tie up units for a while. In the mean time you use your other units to slowly grind enemy units down.

You need to becareful with the teleporting priest and the 4 melta guys. They are great at doing some things, but if you leave them out alone they are going to be gunned down quick.

In my (admittedly limited experience) playing against and a little with them. You might as well not even think you have any heavy support slots. They just aren't worth it. The Grey Slayers can do what Long Fangs do for cheaper. You shouldn't need long range fire power. Speed is all you need.

30-45 Fenrisian Wolves
Lord on a Bike with Bikers
Rune Priest with TDA leading a Grey Slayers pack around to melta/plasma stuff.
Everythying else runs behind the wolves.

If you aren't all over him like big girl on a Little Debbie by turn 2, you can kiss your backside goodbye.

Well, I've had the chance to get in a few new games with my above-mentioned army. The results have been surprising, to say the least. The min-max Marines either destoyed me in 3 turns, or got Escelated to death rather easily. I'm still unsure of how to beat all those Assault Cannons in a straight-up game. The Genestealer Horde is rather easy to smash, the humble Bolter and good cover go along way to evening up those I6 terrors, this is also where the Long Fangs earned their keep quite well. The Daemonbomb was a nightmare, but I managed a draw thanks to my plucky WGPLs and their buckets of Powerfist dice.

Still, I don't enjoy swarming people with Wolves. It doesn't really fit the 'small elite' archtype I envisioned when I started the army in the first place. Surely there's gotta be a different way? The Grey Slayers are perhaps the best point-for-point all around Troops in the game. Maybe if I took several more squads...

You can fit 6 full squads in an army and still have some wolves (2 or 3 medium sized squads, 6-8).

Then add some wolves, and very cheap hqs.

You could give a couple squads plasmaguns for sitting and shooting long range at fast vehicles like landspeeders, potentially.

I read a couple of pages from that thread at Warseer. "Wishful thinking" probably sums most of it up.

It's an army that has no answer for a shooty opponent. That keeps it from being viable.

Against a static shooty army, Wolves and a teleporting Priest as well as bikers should go a long way. Mobile shooty enemys on the other hand are propably hard to beat.
My suggestion: WolfLord on bike and 2x10 Fenris Wolves to tie things up. A lot of Grey Slayers in units of 6-8. Priest with the Meltasquad of death. This way you make use of the mandatory HQs and get some numbers as well as some shooting.

I read a couple of pages from that thread at Warseer. "Wishful thinking" probably sums most of it up.

It's an army that has no answer for a shooty opponent. That keeps it from being viable.

13th Co. can´t really play in the same Division as your Ultras (for example) Mauleed. But you can still make quite fun armies for more "friendly" games, or non-tournie-games if that´s a better word for it.

Thankfully for me, that type of well thought-out kind of tournie-army like yours, is hardly existing around here, and few would be able to use it "right". Thus the 13th Co. is a viable army to use and have fun while playing with and still get some wins.

Fenrisian Wolves are nice, stats like an Assault Marine, bar the same on bolt pistol and frag, but faster and at a decent price. It´s not uncommon to get a first-turn charge against the first enemy line, with them.
There are other nice gems in the list but ultimately, I feel they´re a little too restricted in their choices and and perhaps a little too one-dimensional.Mobile-Marine armies are hard for them, lots of ´Speeders and Termies, keeping the distance while using their AssCans for example.                                                                                    I still like playing them though, and the fluff and modelling possibilities are definetly "there", more important to me, than having the best stuff  to easily make the best killer-list. 

I think the shootie style list will have the hardest time against a 'swarm' of grey slayers who are in your face. The Wolves are simply done unless you go first, and then they'll lose to the marines in assault but tie up some shooting for a while. Bikers are too short on numbers, even like 15 would do nothing but die in very expensive waves. Bikers first, the rest of the army second.

The problem with wolves is that even with 45 of them, a good shootie army will kill most of them before they engage. So it's a gamble as to whether or not you go first. I think with enough grey slayers, the scout move, and teleporting, you'd be able to put up a good fight against a shootie style army. You have a crapload of bolters and special weapons to kill lighter vehicles and you'll wipe out squads at a time in assault (5 attack power fists that hit on 3s).

Against Mauleed's army, you'd be fighting two higher leadership Psychic Hoods to get your 'Gate' off, so fat chance there. And every other marine army has a Libby.

Yeah, the whole new Ld10 Libbys are very bad for the 13th Co. Their Rune Priest should be just as skilled but GW´s lazyness makes them unviable in the Gate-role...

Fenrisian Wolves are very rarely wiped up before they get a charge though, atleasts for me. Even against shooty armies. If I get the first turn atleast one Pack usually gets to assault in turn 1 and if I don´t, few units are able to Rapid Fire them (what kills them in droves). Mauleed´s army might kill them off faster, he´s got plenty of mobile guns with lots of shots and a good range (his Preds, ´Speeders and maybe Terminators) but most other armies (that I face) don´t have that quanity of weapons to kill off 40+ T4 models at that range in one turn.
And when they get there, they usually hold up long enough to buy some time (remember they have No Matter The Odds and And They Shall Know No Fear ).
In short, Fenrisian Wolves are one of the better units in the list, well worth their 10ps.

I think they're worth it but I don't think I'd buy 30+ of them, probably 24 or so would be my max.

If you run into an army that can kill 24 wolves before they hit them, they could kill 30 or 40 as well. I know from experience killing genestealers that it's extremely easy to murder T4 guys that don't have a 3+ save. Even in cover. And wolves don't have grenades (which makes them a joke for assaulting bolter marines).

Warseer is pretty much the last place I'd go for tactical advice btw. Grey slayers and storm claws are about the only thing 13th company has going for it in my book. Wolves are a good cheap fast distraction but not worth dropping 450 pts on.

i dont know if 13th company have any special rules or anything (i dont play SW and i dont own the codex) but i have a good opponent whose shceme is 13th company. his marines have a few chaos SM pieces put here and there. it looks REALLY cool

necrongod wrote:i dont know if 13th company have any special rules or anything (i dont play SW and i dont own the codex) but i have a good opponent whose shceme is 13th company. his marines have a few chaos SM pieces put here and there. it looks REALLY cool

They do, from the Eye of terror codex if i remember correctly.
But the rules are so outdated that most people use the more recent SW codex.
Although it's good to see someone playing them good luck.

bigchris1313 wrote:I really can't comment much because I don't play SW, and I haven't played a game of 40k since August, but I can tell you that Longfangs are, in three words or less, "Too damned expensive." Even if you get yourself into some nice 4+ cover, the almost total loss of ablative wounds is killer. And your one ablative wound is already 36 pts, IIRC. Those just aren't good odds.

You can buy an ablative wolf guard for 18 points, that's only 2 points more than vanilla marines or 3 points more than a chaos marine. The cost you save in reduced price ML more than makes up for the extra 2 or 3 points if you want an ablative wound. For 15 more points the ablative wound can be placed in terminator armor. The pack leader can eat AP2 wounds, anything AP3 or higher goes on the wolf guard.

Wow...tis the time to raise the dead huh?
Epic Threadromancy.

It is rather Epic, isn't it?

OK - closed now!