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I bought the Black Templar codex because I like the modeling and painting possibilities, and want to make s 400 point Combat Patrol army with them, because our group has been playing a lot of that lately. I started flipping through the codex today, and I'm noticing some strange stuff:

My 'normal' Chaos Space Marines are 15 points each, they get bolters, bolt pistols, close combat weapons, frag grenades, and krak grenades.

My 'normal' Black Templar troops choice (Crusaders) are 16 points each, they have to choose between a bolter or a bolt pistol/close combat weapon, they have to pay extra for frag and krak grenades, and their Leadership is one lower than the CSM troops choice. Otherwise, the stat line is the same.

Is it just the different Terminator choices that make them cooler? Or the different Land Raiders? Because I can't use either in 400 point Combat Patrol. Or is it something else I'm missing? I'm a bit of a noob, so please let me know.

Are the Black Templars going to be any good in Combat Patrol, or is it a lost cause from the start?

Thanks for your help.

For games that small you're probably better off playing some other army, but I'm not completely sure.

The cool things with the army, for me at least, is that with the right vow your army gains army wide Preferred Enemy. Besides that, we have the most awesome Terminators out there. You could field a squad with two Cyclones and give them the Tank Hunters USR (4 S9 shots is very nice) or you could field a squad with lightning claws and give them Furious Charge (strike at initiative 5, strength 5, re-roll hits and wounds). If hat's not enough, you can take small squads of 5 initiates and still be able to give them a heavy weapon and a special weapon (can't be done with ordinary SM).

Emperor's god-damn champion.

Hey OP,

Black Templars are a very dangerous army IF you use the proper tactics. In objective based games, a smart opponent may try to take advantage of RIGHTEOUS ZEAL in order to try and divert you towards a squad that is not near the objective.

You used to be able to make a Footslogger list with massed infantry units that was effective (10 initiate/10 neophyte w/ chaplain was nasty on the charge if they got there), alternatively crusader squads in a Land Raider Crusader are very effective as you can charge 15 guys out of it.

Drop Pods were always my favorite and in a smaller point game, you can ruin your opponent; even with a bolter squad. Here's a little strategy:

#1. 10 Initiates with Bolters, usually special weapon & power fist in a drop pod/10 initiates with CCW/BP, special weapon/power fist
#2. Drop the pods within 1" of the enemy squad you want to wreck, preferably a shooty squad with heavy weapon(s).
#3. Drop down, fire your 8 bolters on rapid fire (better chance to hit usually due to the 3+ but with preferred enemy, well you can re-roll your misses; against low WS like Guard you could do the same thing just as effectively if not moreso with a close combat squad, same tactics apply) & fire your special weapon. Fire your other squad as well.
#4. The enemy is going to have 2 choices now: He can fire on you and in most cases, since you dropped down beside him, it will be a unit close to your guys. If one of them dies (you can always put a suicidal neophyte in the squad as 1 of 10 to use him for first wound). If you lose 1, given you got a D6" Move and you are likely close to the enemy; you stand a damn good chance of getting into close combat with him, on his turn. If he has to move the squad to get away from you, he just lost the ability to use his heavy weapons. If you don't get in combat with him, he can assault you and likely die or you will be able to hit him back next turn.

I personally prefer to have a mixture of close combat squads with separate bolter armed squads. Generally, 1 will support the other.

The reason for this is on a bolter squad dropping in:

*You are guaranteed 16 shots + bolt pistol on PF guy + special weapon (flamers work good here to, very good).
*If you do not get in close combat, you are still going to be able to maintain that rapid fire goodness the next turn.
*You won't get as many attacks in your assault, but you get more attacks while out of assault.
*Despite the fact that most of your men will only get 1 attack on a Righteous Zeal induced assault phase, you can re-roll to hit and you got off 2 shots per guy turn before.

When CCW/BP squads have their good point:

* You are only going to get 9 shots + special weapon (if yu took ot it) when you drop. This is 7 less and the potential for 7 less kills then the bolter squad, leaving the enemy unit stronger.
* The only way you make up those attacks, is in close combat, when you will end up with a total of 8 more attacks.
* The upside to the 8 more attacks, is they are all re-rolled.
* Same tactic used as bolter squad, but the next turn; they will fire pistols and charge an enemy no matter what.

Which is the higher threat?

I like to use the 2 in conjunction in the midst of an enemy force with drop pods as it creates chaos. The enemy has to choose between both units and no matter what they fire on, it's going to be running at them if they score a kill.

Most opponents will make the mistake of deeming my CCW squad to be of a higher threat and try to wittle it down. Inevitably, they will kill 1 or 2 and end up locked in CC with them. The fact that I re-roll all my to hits, gives me a very good chance (better then 4th I think) of absolutely ruining the assault.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just a quick thought for a foot-slogger army with crusader seals with close combat weapons:

Decent point cost for 20 units. You have a 33% chance of moving an extra 6" with the crusader seals if you take a casualty.

Movement + Running = 12" on your turn potentially. + another potential 6" when your opponent shoots you and he will.

That means on turn 2, you could be 18" across the board with a mob of 20 strong. That is scary, considering they are a mob of VERY angry space marines with big weapons ready to tear you limb from limb in close combat.

It's a good psychological unit to have. Your enemy will focus fire on it, over your other more valuable units and end up paying the final price.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
..and a funny thing to add. Somehow all these years, I've never noticed in my army list:


Emperor's Champion is listed as Emperor's CHANCE.

Typhoons on Speeders,2x Cyclones on 5 Terms is our best , army wide(almost, poor neos) PF

Don't forget power fists that are 10pts cheaper for all non-HQ guys, plasma guns that are 9 pts cheaper and PotMS (potentially) on all vehicles. Black Templar are great and great fun too. Plus we have the Holy Hand Grenade (I mean Orb ) of Antioc as well. King Arthur, eat your heart out.

Don't forget they can still take Adamantine Mantles which allow you to take 1 wound instead of sufferring ID.

I appreciate the answers, guys, but I'm not technically trying to start my next full army (I already have 1500-2000 points each of Tau and Chaos Space marines), I'm just looking to see if Black Templars will work well in 400 point Combat Patrol (Adepticon 2011 rules). Therefore, no figures with more than two wounds, no 2+ saves, vehicles can't have more than 11 on any one side (unless a dedicated transport, then it can have 12), no psychic tests, HQ not required, and so on. I mainly just was interested in a little bit of Black Templar because they look really fun to model and paint, but upon looking through the codex, it really seems like I might have made a mistake. Has anyone here played them in Combat Patrol?

Don't forget the recent FAQ update which made them considerably better!