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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Is it worth it to give Imperial Guard Veterans Shotguns instead of Lasguns?

Shotguns let you assault and are AP -. Shotgun conversions often look cooler then the default las guns and get you conversion points.

Las guns let you use the first rank second rank order for more shots and fire 24 if you didn't move. Las guns are ap 6.

Shotguns seem decent for the ability to assault if you fight a lot of xenos or guard mirrors where I would actually assault other squishies and there are conversion points but I don't seem to be fighting all that many Xenos or Ig mirrors lately. Assaulting doesn't even happen that often with Chimeras having only a rear access point.

Las guns you get to use the first rank second rank order but this doesn't come up that often as you usually trying to melta transports and it doesn't work whlie in transports and when your transport explodes you usually put wounds on las gunners first so there might not be that many left to benefit from the order. Firing a single shot 24 if you didn't move also doesn't come up very often but it has been decent a few times.

What do you think?

Also suggestions on cool shotgun conversions would be good.

   
Made in gb
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot





Firstly, lasguns are AP -. I think that, while shotguns look cool, lasguns are probably better. Thay can FRFSRF and as guard, you shouldn't be assaulting much, more shooting things with melta/ plasma. Of course, that's not to say that you can't assault if needs be, but make sure the sergeant has at least a power weapon.


   
Made in us
Sinister Chaos Marine






Most people are probably going to tell you that shotguns are not the way to go. I on the other hand will say that they are good to put in a unit with 3 flamers and a sgt. w/ a power weapon or powerfist.
Now before someone rips into me for wasting the BS on the vets, hear me out. This is a decently cheap way to build a counter charge unit of sorts if you don't want the points and money expensive ogryns from Gamesworkshop. I used to use a unit like that while I was still building my IG army up and it worked pretty well against both green-tide and daemon infantry popping up next to stuff.
Are las-guns better? I don't think so, mostly because I like having the option to assault before the enemy in front of me can after firing 12 shotgun shots at them plus 3 flamethrowers AND the sergeants las-pistol(for what its worth). You could still even take meltas to crack tanks and ashify everything else if you want. Whatever your army set up, I think shotguns are underrated and could work. =)

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





for some reason I thought las guns were ap6. must be from multi lasers being ap6. I take meltas in all my vets right now which is why I'm considering shot guns. I wouldn't consider them if I took plasma vets.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/25 22:51:52


 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

it's pretty close. I run lasguns with my melta vets because my praetorians don't have shotguns, and while there are a few times i'd wish I'd had the shotties, it's never been a big deal.

That said, i rarely shoot 24" or use FRF!SRF! either.

If you' like the idea of doing the conversions, I'd recommend it.
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






The most common configuration I have seen in a long while for Chi-Melta-vets is 7 Shot-guns, 3 meltas(in a MultiLaser/Heavy flamer Chimera).

In this manner if the transport is destroyed; the vets get out, Shoot all their guns at an enemy squad, and assault it: 14 Assault-Lasgun shots and 3 Meltas before a charge helps to do *some* damage before those vets get wiped(they were likely to get assaulted on their next turn anyways, and all weapons have a 12" range, so it is either Fire-and-engage, or run and not fire at all). by the Time the Chimera gets destroyed the vets should have at least gotten their job done and silenced 1 heavy tank.

I do not know if "conventional wisdom" has changed on this configuration, but the underlying premise is sound.

P.S.: Polonius' army does look sweet, and the last few tournies I went to where he played(Matrix-Warzone, mostly last year, Pol.) he either came in first or second

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/25 23:04:31


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Made in ca
Rampaging Carnifex





Toronto, Ontario

Shotguns are a great addition to any Veteran squad with assault weapons, including melta guns. Yes, you lose out on the volley fire order, but your veterans are mostly in Chimeras anyway which precludes you from using the order in the first place. Having the shotguns can come in handy if you want to buy another unit of yours a turn to get away from an approaching unit that can assault, and that can save you a game depending on the circumstances.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Oklahoma City, Ok.

if my vets have meltas, they have shotguns.
and i doubt the situation would arise where I'd FRF,SRF with vets.
usually out of range, in their ride, or getting kia'd in HTH after their ride popped.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and i mainly equip them that way for looks and so the meltas/shotguns all move and shoot.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/25 23:07:09


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Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





In your base, ignoring your logic.

I think that shotguns are good if you are running the assault kind of IG, powerblobs and the such. Lasguns are typically for the sit and defend armies, typical for IG.

   
Made in us
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman






Honestly, the shotgun vs lasguns on melta veterans debate is a decision that almost 9 times out of 10, won't make a bit of a difference. That being said, there are almost no drawbacks to giving melta vets shotguns, even if they don't utilize the shotgun's only bonus, which is to allow the unit to assault afterwards after shooting all weapons.

However, the bonus to assault is then counter-acted by the lasgun's bonus which is the ability to utilize the FRFSRF order. There will probably be times when you might go "D'oh I wish my vets had shotguns so they could assault", but then there are probably just as many times where you might find FRFSRF useful. Having Creed for the special order, or Straken can tip the balance in favor of using shotguns, but even then only a little.

Short version: for melta vets, go for it. Other than that, use lasguns.
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





killeen TX

the only time i go with shotguns for my vets is when i have the equiped with 3 meltas and give them the demolition doctrine. this works to my favor ass all are assault weapons and, if i have to, can assault the vehicle or dread.

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Made in us
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





Shotguns let you charge in on your turn and subsequently die on your turn, giving the opponent a couple of extra inches.

Lasguns force your oppoenet to charge you and kill you on his turn, allowing them to be shot at next turn.

After proxying shotguns for a few games for my Vets, I have never wished for shotguns.

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Somewhere in the confinds of central Jersey

Mike Brandt won BFS last year with all shot guns. I know he ran stracken so charging might have been more appealing. I think it would be best talking to him.
   
Made in us
Battleship Captain




Oregon

On a related note, there isn't a plastic IG shotgun bit is there?

On topic, I don't see what Lasguns give a Melta squad. You are probably going to be assaulting whatever your target is after wards anyway and I can't see someone wasting FRFSRF on 7 Lasguns so what are you losing by taking the Shotguns?

   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Manchester, UK

Shotguns can be really nice. I have often charged some melta vets into an objective holder just to pull them out of cover or get them off the objective.

I mainly take them as I like to match my weapon types. Melta squads get shotguns and plasma ones get lasguns.

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Made in gb
Tail Gunner




I don't know and don't care about which you choose, but I know a link to someones blog, who has converted some shotguns.
http://77thcef.blogspot.com/2010/08/shotguns-for-imperial-guard-10-minute.html/shotgun 10 minute conversion guide
I haven't tried this but I got a picture of a lasgun and a picture of a boltgun and made an image on microsoft paint that didn't require any extra parts.

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Made in us
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





Yes, there are plastic shotguns. I have some Catachans with them. No, I have no idea where they came from, sorry.

Straken is awesome, so I assume he would be using him in conjunction with shotguns for more total awesomeness. Myself, I find he doesn't do enough for his huge cost.

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Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Texas

I always take shotties with meltas

I barely charge though but why in the world would I stand still with meltasvets anywho? Mind as well have the option

Plasma its lasguns since there is a reason to stand still and plasma aint assault

 
   
Made in au
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge



Tongala, Victoria, Australia

Another vote for shotguns.

If you are close enough to rapidfire with lasguns, you are close enough to shoot with shotguns and possibly assault.
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Grot Snipa




mulkers wrote:Another vote for shotguns.

If you are close enough to rapidfire with lasguns, you are close enough to shoot with shotguns and possibly assault.


You don't always have to rapid fire. Shotguns are only good for Tarpit units and Vets/Straken retinues. Apart from that Lasgun's all the way.
I play against them sometimes and Shotguns do some damage and Tarpit my units/Counter assault them. Lasguns do the real damage with FRSRF when in rapid range. My Ork's die in droves.

Summary:Shotguns Meltavet/Tarpit units/Straken retinues.
Lasgun's everything else.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Currently I run 3 units of Veterans. 1 with 3 melta and 2 with 3 melta and an auto cannon.

Shotguns for a Vet unit with just 3 meltas seems ok but is it worth it for a unit with 3 meltas and an auto cannon? As far as I know the heavy weapon team loader comes with a las gun which you can't swap out for a shot gun.

I'm inclined to just make shotguns for the one unit with 3 meltas.

Also is it worth giving the sarge a shotgun to have an extra shot but giving up the pistol for the extra close combat attack?

   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




Falls Church, VA

Kirika wrote:Currently I run 3 units of Veterans. 1 with 3 melta and 2 with 3 melta and an auto cannon.

Shotguns for a Vet unit with just 3 meltas seems ok but is it worth it for a unit with 3 meltas and an auto cannon? As far as I know the heavy weapon team loader comes with a las gun which you can't swap out for a shot gun.

I'm inclined to just make shotguns for the one unit with 3 meltas.

Also is it worth giving the sarge a shotgun to have an extra shot but giving up the pistol for the extra close combat attack?



No on the sarge, yes on the melta vets, no on the melta vets with autocannons.

Then again, I didnt like the autocannon in the meltavet squad due to how it conflicts their roles and dropped it after a game or two, if you end up dropping them, shotguns for everybody! (except sgts)
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





As for the sarge getting a shotgun if he has a pistol and cc weapon an extra attack is probably hitting on 4s and wounding on 5's assuming the enemy is marines. With a shotgun an extra shot is hitting on 3s and wounding on same 5's so shot is more likely to connect. Killing a guy with a shot means less attacks swinging back however close combat wounds count towards combat res so more attacks in cc is desirable. So dunno which way to go here.

Auto cannons gives you something to do with your vets when you have to camp on an objective which ends up being 2/3s the missions.

The auto cannons do get cut for my 1750 list so would end up having to do 3 squads worth of shotguns :(

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/29 14:45:03


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





I agree with shotguns for melta/flamer squads.

I've been converting some by just filing lasguns until they look like shotguns.

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