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Lately I've been playing against a guy who plays a mechdar list, runs 6 wave serpents with ML's, 3 squads of storm guardians, 3 squads of fire dragons, a farseer and 3 wraithlords. I can I just cant find a way to beat him. I run 3 squads of oblits, 3 squads of of plague marines with meltas, and two DP's with MoN and warptime. I have a heck of time trying to pop any of his wave serpents due to their shielding, and his wraithlords make short work of my daemon princes (especially since I cant cast warptime).

So I was wondering if anyone had any general tactics/suggestions that could help me beat this? Or maybe some changes in my list?

Well, I'd field 3x3 Obliterators. They will definitely punch holes into the Serpents.
Three squads of Plague Marines with power fist, meltas or plasma guns in Rhinos are fine.
Then I'd add a Termie squad with reaper autocannon(s) and power fists.

I'd play defensely. Target priority is key. First target the Serpents. Shooting the WLs from far is usually a waste until they are close and the Oblits can use twinlinked plasma. Power fists should finally take them down.

You might consider replacing one squad of Oblits with a squad of Havocs with 4 missile launchers. They lose the ability to move & fire, but they gain 33% more firepower against Wave Serpents, adding the fourth heavy (since the lascannon's S9 is bumped down to S8 against the field). Mechdar is one reason why my tournament lists pretty much always pack the ML havocs and two squads of Oblits. Havocs also have the advantage of maintaining their firepower longer; they can have bulletcatchers in the squad, so you're not necessarily losing 1/3 of the squad's firepower everytime you fail a save against a S8+ gun, like Oblits do.

You need to focus fire on the transports and ignore the wraithlords until they get close. You CAN cast Warp Time. With Runes of Warding in play you still have a 50/50 shot for your power to work. Gang up on the WLs if you have to.

Early game, be sure to position your PMs with Meltas to intercept/melta/assault any transports which come swooping toward your HS units bearing Fire Dragons. You need to keep your HS guys alive and shooting. Late game, put your PMs with Meltas on objectives, positioned to Death or Glory when tries to Tank Shock in at the end to contest your objectives.

Holofields are the bane of my life!! Just be glad that he isn't fielding three fire prisms as well! Anyway, rant over. I'd take some havocs? Thee are pros and cons to an obliterator squad or havoc squad that i reckon you already know, but i'd go with havocs because you've got two other obliterator squads. Maybe something with power fists or the like, or that can get them fast. When i use BA, i have a libby dreadnought with wings of sanguinius for S10 force weapon attacks and getting to those skimmers very quickly, so a similar thing would be... Tzeentch daemon prince with wings? Psychic powers are Bolt of Change and Wind of Chaos. That might help a bit.

Add a Land Raider with Abaddon. Apply liberally to entire battlefield.

EDIT:

Actually, just walk/Run Abby. Bright lances and Fire Dragons are inconvenient for Land Raiders.

Mannahnin wrote:You might consider replacing one squad of Oblits with a squad of Havocs with 4 missile launchers. They lose the ability to move & fire, but they gain 33% more firepower against Wave Serpents, adding the fourth heavy (since the lascannon's S9 is bumped down to S8 against the field). Mechdar is one reason why my tournament lists pretty much always pack the ML havocs .

Why do you run ML Havocs instead of AC ones?

A few reasons.

1. AP3 is nice against most monstrous creatures, the occasional attack bike or biker squadron, etc.
2. S8 is nice to threaten instant death on various units, like characters and plague marines.
3. S8 is much more useful against AV13 stuff like Preds, Furiosos and Ironclads.
4. Frag is a very nice option when you're bringing Lash. I've scored over 40 hits against a given enemy unit on occasion.

I like the two AC and two ML in that type of squad... Same general objective, but wider band of threat (ie AC still potent against AV 10-11 with more shots fired).

minigun762 wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:You might consider replacing one squad of Oblits with a squad of Havocs with 4 missile launchers. They lose the ability to move & fire, but they gain 33% more firepower against Wave Serpents, adding the fourth heavy (since the lascannon's S9 is bumped down to S8 against the field). Mechdar is one reason why my tournament lists pretty much always pack the ML havocs .

Why do you run ML Havocs instead of AC ones?

I know! What are these guys thinking?

Honestly OP get some havocs. 2 AC 2 ML is the way to go IMO.

Why do you run ML Havocs instead of AC ones?

4 ACs are eventually better than 4 MLs against Serpents.
However, I'm too lazy to run the statistics.

Yes, but missile launchers can also take down WL with ease, if ever the oblits should be too occupied with something else.