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The question of this thread will appear at some point, but first a story of my start at 40k to give a background for my asking of this question:

So as many know I'm SUPER wishy-washy about what army I want to play. I started off wanting smurfs but instantly switched to space wolves for the space viking-ness. I thought they would be a good assaulty army, though I soon found out from a friend that Blood Angels are better at that.

Now I know I want to play marines of some sort, the problem is which. Now there is of course always Codex Marines which gives me lots of choice, though I feel like I would want to chose a chapter and be slightly fluffy about it in at least following the chapter's specialization. Then there are the special marines who have their own codices.

The problem is I don't think I can easily describe what I want to do. I want a sort of elite army that is good at assault with good cover fire behind them. I feel like this would push me to Grey Knights or Blood Angels, with maybe Space Wolves and Codex Marines (vets and such).

If anyone can sort out my madness, please help. If not, what I'd like to know is if I can have a comparison of playstyles between all of them (heck, maybe even Chaos, though I'm still not sure if I would like playing them ). For codex marines I was looking at Crimson Fists because painting them would seems fun to me for some reason, hell, I may paint some for no reason even if I don't chose them! For the various codex chapters that have ICs in C:SM I was curious about what the armies theme for weapons and vehicles and such, same goes for the chapters that have their own codices.

I'm still gonna work on my wolves even if I don't make them my army, since I do like painting them. I'll keep a small force for small matches and such. Plus I can make the crazy lone wolf I had planned while ignoring points cost!

P.S. Sorry for the long rambly post where I probably asked for way too much.


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Oh I also was wondering about the fluff theme of the armies if that makes sense. Not what they use but what they're like. Like how the wolves are vikings in space. That kinda thing. Hope that makes sense!

The problem is I don't think I can easily describe what I want to do. I want a sort of elite army that is good at assault with good cover fire behind them.

You can do it with any marine codex, but it all depends on the flavor.

Ultramarines - My space romans, a TH/SS squad charging in with a hammer + shield phalanx supported by shooting armor, land speeders, and lots and lots of bolters. This is the probably most specialized of the current four "new" marine books, your units that shoot and can...SORT OF assault, and your assault units can pretty much only assault, the others codices are more versatile to varying extents.

Space wolves - Long fangs supporting blood claws and wolf guard or similar will get you what you want to do. Yay vikings!

Blood angels - Sternguard! Fast predators! More land speeders! And then, vanguard and assault marines flying around melta-ing everything in range and hitting things with swords.

Grey knights - Well, dakkadreads and lots and lots of stormbolters and power weapons...on EVERYONE....you can support and shoot all on your own.

Hmm, I was expecting more responses, my fault for posting this at 3 in the morning. Consider this a bump to get more responses before I actually respond. Wait, that's a lie, I have another question now.

In general is it better to have termies be shooty or assaulty but not a mix? Or can a mix be good? Maybe in a specific marine army?

Anyway, looking for more responses since SOFDC didn't cover everything, though at almost 4 in the morning it is hard.

Depends what you really want to do...

Have you considered Black Templars? They are still the monsters of close combat in my opinion. Hello Preferred Enemy.


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Portaljacker wrote:Hmm, I was expecting more responses, my fault for posting this at 3 in the morning. Consider this a bump to get more responses before I actually respond. Wait, that's a lie, I have another question now.

In general is it better to have termies be shooty or assaulty but not a mix? Or can a mix be good? Maybe in a specific marine army?

Anyway, looking for more responses since SOFDC didn't cover everything, though at almost 4 in the morning it is hard.

Terminators depend upon the role you wish them in your army. Generally, assault terminators are able to smash aside all opposition in close combat but if you play Templars... you can still take 2 Assault Cannons in a 5 man squad. Lots of Firepower. Also... it's kind of cheap, but Black Templars can still Drop Pod 5 terminators...

In general is it better to have termies be shooty or assaulty but not a mix? Or can a mix be good? Maybe in a specific marine army?

Most marine lists cannot really mix and match between assaulty and shooty terminators in the same squad.

Dark angels and space wolves can mix and match terminator weapons, and some good results can be had (Stormshields and chainfists in the same squad, Wee! And backed up with cyclone missile launchers!) Dark angels tactical marines, unlike BT, also come equipped with bolt pistols (but not CCW...only important if you intend to charge, but still important.) and DA tacs can also, unlike 5th ed vanilla, take a special weapon without that idiotic 10 man requirement.

Black templars, as stated, are still vicious in CC between their "unique" layout of 16 point marines with a BP+CCW, and then filling in CCW+BP scouts, and rushing 20 body blobs forth in this black tide of hate and spam, and the army wide preferred enemy. They can also still go 5 man Lascannon/plasmagun squads, and take power of the machine spirit on vindicators. They can get furious charge/tank hunters on their terminators of either variety, and

We easily have the best terminators, point for point.

Space wolves are very flexible. They do both sides rather well as they're a close quarters army. Both troops choices are killer in CC, but i find that with blood claws you need a full squad to be effective, and without a land raider they won't make it at a good strength.
as for what codex and the fluff, why stick with what's been written? Its so much more fun to make up your own

I just haven't had any ideas for self-made fluff, creating creative works tends to be hard for me unless I get a sudden and rare spark of inspiration.

Sticking to fluff can be fun in it's own RPG sort of way, worst thing is that I come up with some sort of successor chapter for the army I chose and I integrate it into the force until I can make it into a full one. Actually, that doesn't sound like a bad idea.

A friend of mine actually had a good idea for a force. Since he doesn't care about playing as much he just makes units with different paint schemes from each other. It would be interesting to make an army composed of the founding chapter and its successor chapters. I will try that at some point.


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Yay, more rambling!


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No one? :(

Anyone? I'm gonna learn to play on my small wolves force, but I want to learn about the other options because from what I keep getting told and read about SW are different than how I think I want to play (emphasis on think).

Well...
Look at the different units and how they can work.
You could take a large amount of GH in Razorbacks with Predators and some LOand Speeders and call it an armoured strikeforce.
You could have all your army in drop pods and call it an insertion force.
You could have only a few troops i drop pods but have lots of Wolf Scouts and go for the whole hunter aspect...
SW can play i many different ways...
Grey Hunters are good enough to be used in a lot of ways which makes them an incredible troops choice.


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If you want an army that has good cover fire SW may be good since their Long Fang cheese is pretty good.
Get Logan Grimnar so you can take WG as troops.
Figure out what your troop choices will be then take 3 packs of Long Fangs with 5 heavy weapons each (Missile Launchers are the usual cheese)
Grab a few Rune Priests for added support and you have an element of Logan Grimnars strike force.

That comes to my other issue with playing space wolves, the best tactic suggested involves "you need 5 missile launchers". For a new player this is kinda rediculous since most places I look to get the missile launcher part of the sprue it costs $9. I didn't mind the melta spam since GW makes it super cheap to get more melta with the blister (wish flamers were that easy though).

Well then...
There are 2 fire obsessed Wolf Lords currently reigning in the SW chapter...
My personal favorite idea goes like this:
Logan Grimnar

At least 2XWolf Guard in groups of 5 or 10 in drop pods-each is equipped with-
Combi-melta
Combi-flamer

Land Speeders
Multi melta
Heavy flamer

3XLong Fangs
5 Multi-meltas
All in drop pods.

Add anything else on.
You could take a group of WG termies in a Redeemer as a body guard for Grimnar.
Of course he won't be called Grimnar, he will have another name you'll only be using his rules.

You could also replace the WG with GH and simply use a standard WL instead of Grimnar.

This list isn't all the way competetive but it'll be a bundle of fun to play.

This has the similar problem of having to get 12 multi-meltas.

12?
Try 15...
Should be fairly easy...
Most people don't use theirs...
Check bitz sites etc

Ok, so my counting is off.

Do the other SM armies require this much bit gathering to make their lists? For conversions of stuff like non-existing characters or metal models with the wrong equipment I understand it. But shouldn't it be possible to make an army without having to hunt for so many bitz?

Probably not...
Most competetive armies rely on spamming the good parts of the codex and then equipping them correctly.
I don't know a lot about other ones but i do know the MotF list relies on dread spam.

The parts being spammed being more the units than a weapon in a unit?

I guess the LF thing is only really done on SW because of split fire which makes the point sink worth it, whereas someone would just use 2 preds or something like that and save points.

It's not much of a point sink...
It's really cheap for 15 missile launchers.
Usually people spam certain units but the weapons are also important e.g. Rifleman dreads

Rifleman meaning TL-autocannons? (not the gattling ones but the predator ones) Those don't come with dreads do they?

On another note I wish someone else would chime in with more viewpoints on my questions.


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For some reason I feel like I'm leaning towards BA or GK. Though BA more because of jetpack fun-times.

Yeah you need to build your own TL autocannons...
BA have several good builds in general...
Jump packs tend to be the way to go but you can have a lot of success with the whole razorback/predator spam list.

And no offence to purplefood, you've always been great with SW help.

None taken, i have nothing better to do since i am trying to sleep through all of tomorrow.

lol, even if I don't end up playing wolves as my main force I'll still have a small one for fun on the side. I'm almost done Prospero Burns. The book has made me understand that as much as they want to, the wolves don't just rush in without a plan. They stay back until the time is right.

I don't know what my fascination with the jump packs is. But the fact that wolves can't really use them as well without the wolf priest is annoying, though you can make a sort of vanguard veteran squad with wolf lords, but that would be out of place for the wolves.

I really wish GW would release some sort of thunderwolf box. The perfect way would be to sell them like the bikes. Honestly I would probably not be having second thoughts about the wolves if official thunderwolves existed. Whenever they do I think I'll be having the wolves as my main army for sure!

Though who knows, I may end up sticking with them. Choosing which Astartes to play is what this thread is all about, and I won't cut it quite yet.

Jump packs are avoided 'cos Russ didn't like them...
It's more of a fluffy thing but there is literally no point in them for SW.

Russ sure doesn't like a lot of awesome things, but who can argue with the man who has a retinue of hot blanks and yells at his brother through the eyes of a storyteller?

*is sad not much discussion about the differences was had*

I just want to figure out which sounds more like what I want to play/paint/revel in the fluff of. Though the playing is the more important part.