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OK U guys might have already cleared this up a thousand times but I really need answers on this cause I dont think I can rest untill I do So My question is can and Independant character be targeted in close combat by models that are NOT in base to base contact with him????????
Ie Thraka and a random Space wolf that had at least 2 models in his way?

Any model within 2" of a space wolf model that is in base contact with Ghazghkull, and not in base contact with another ork model may attack him.

As above. He is a separate unit, so the rules for attacking a unit come into play.

Simple breakdown for ICs in combat:

They can be attacked by any model in base-to-base contact with them.

They can be attacked by any model in the same unit as a model in base-to-base contact with them, providing those models are within 2" of the model in Base-to-base contact, and not in base-to-base contact with any other enemy models.

They can attack any unit(as a whole) with at least 1 model in base-to-base contact with them.

See it was always my understanding that in order for the enemy to target they HAD to be in base to base.
I see I will have to bow down on this point lmao

But next question is so if they are not in base to base but within the 2 inches of a model that is if they are touchin an enemy model they then cant target the independant?

this question really arose from a total fantasy game of where there were 4 of us playing all havin diff armies but joined 2 Hq' and eleits together, CRAZY

In B2B with IC only = Can only hit the IC
Not in B2B with IC but in B2B with another enemy = Can not hit the IC
In B2B with IC and another enemy = Can split attacks as they see fit
Not in B2B with anything, but within 2" of a model of the same friendly unit in B2B with IC only = Can only hit the IC
Not in B2B with anything, but within 2" of a model of the same friendly unit not in B2B with IC, but in B2B with another enemy = Can not hit the IC
Not in B2B with anything, but within 2" of a model of the same friendly unit in B2B with IC and another enemy = Can split attacks as they see fit

thankyou guys you have proven my point and my friends for that matter. hopfully next time this argument can be left alone lol or if not I will be sayin "hey come an check this out"

Just clearing up this argument with my friend when one more question popped up and it was

Ic is in base to base (say Thraka) and the Nobs are not do they still get to attack the enemy? As Thraka is classed as a seperate unit therefore the Nobz are not engaged?

Note that at the point in time at which you work out who is engaged they are still one unit. They only become two units when you start making attacks. So the Nobs would be engaged.

The reverse doesn't work obviously, i.e. if the Nobs were in base to base and the IC was within 2 inches, because the IC specifically can only attack models in base to base.

kmdl1066 wrote:Note that at the point in time at which you work out who is engaged they are still one unit. They only become two units when you start making attacks. So the Nobs would be engaged.

The reverse doesn't work obviously, i.e. if the Nobs were in base to base and the IC was within 2 inches, because the IC specifically can only attack models in base to base.

This is not at all true.

They are separate units from the beginning of step 3 ont the table on page 33 through the first 2 bullet points(From pick a combat, through Fighting the comat; which is where you determine who can fight, and do the actual fighting)

Daffyof3: If the nobs have no models in base-to-base with any models(which is almost impossible if you and your opponent followed the assault moves and defenders react move correctly); then they cannot attack at all(but are still locked in combat, as they+Thrakka are a single unit still for all purposes excepting "who Can fight" and the actual fight).

Kommissar Kel wrote:They are separate units from the beginning of step 3 ont the table on page 33 through the first 2 bullet points(From pick a combat, through Fighting the comat; which is where you determine who can fight, and do the actual fighting)

Can you quote rules backup for this?

brb page 49 IC+Assaults, second paragraph: all of it.

Don't have time to type the full quote, I have a doctors appointment I need to leave for.

Second Sentence of said paragraph: "When attacks are resolved, however, IC are always treated as a separate single-model unit(see multiple combats), even though they have joined a unit"

Last sentence of said Paragraph: Once all attacks have been resolved, these characters are once again treated as normal members of the unit they have joined(from determining assault results onward)

Kommissar is correct, who can fight is determined after defenders react. If there is no member of the unit in B2B with the enemy except the IC then only the IC can attack. This is a very rare occurrance and typically will happen due to a multiple unit assault or narrow passageway just big enough for the one model to fit down.

Remember though that determining who can fight at the start of the round also means can't take wounds on the unit and pluck off the ones in B2B contact in higher Int hoping to cause the low Int not to have B2B. If you could fight at the start you can fight all the way through that round.

MMMM interesting... I thought as much That the IC been treated as a seperate unit that that would be the case. Its good to kno these things before U start so U can act accordingly, (so my boyz can kick some more BUTT)

Thanks all for yr imput this argument got quite heated and like I said it turns out we were both right and also wrong.
Thankfully tho we are good mates and we had decided that who was wrong would pay the other $5 Lmao
like I said I dare say we are gunna have to agree to that neither get paid on this point heehe

(Not that Thraka would accept bribes from the Imperium) LMAO

Daff

Kommissar Kel wrote:brb page 49 IC+Assaults, second paragraph: all of it.

Don't have time to type the full quote, I have a doctors appointment I need to leave for.

Second Sentence of said paragraph: "When attacks are resolved, however, IC are always treated as a separate single-model unit(see multiple combats), even though they have joined a unit"

Last sentence of said Paragraph: Once all attacks have been resolved, these characters are once again treated as normal members of the unit they have joined(from determining assault results onward)

Right, but pg. 35 "working out which models are engaged in combat is done at the start of the fight, and will not change until it's end."

So my understanding is that you work out who is engaged at the start of the fight, which is before attacks are resolved. And at that point in time there is there only one unit. It's only once you actually move on to resolving the attacks that the IC becomes a separate unit.

kmdl1066 wrote:So my understanding is that you work out who is engaged at the start of the fight, which is before attacks are resolved. And at that point in time there is there only one unit. It's only once you actually move on to resolving the attacks that the IC becomes a separate unit.

Except the rules already consider the IC a separate unit if you're working the other way around.

My take on this, from the last time this topic came up:

insaniak wrote:... if you look at the reverse example (if the unit was in base contact and the IC was simply within 2") the IC should likewise be able to attack... but that's specifically prohibited by the IC rules. It seems, when you look at the rules as a whole, that while it's a little sloppily written, the IC is supposed to be counted as a separate unit when determining who can fight as well as for actually resolving the attacks.