Grey knights? THE counts as army book?

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**gendoikari87**

so after several weeks of pouring over the codex and listening to other people and their ideas. I think it's safe to say that codex: grey knights offers a better base set of rules for a lot of counts as armies. namely off the top of my head:

Pre-heresy Thousand suns (should be obvious why)
Adeptus mechanicus (coteaz for inq warbands, jokaero as sagitarii, dreadknights as knight titans so on and so forth)
Ordo Xenos armies (okay outside of coteaz having to be a xenos inquisitor, this isn't really a counts as army it's just the army)
ordo hereticus armies (see above)
Adeptus custodes armies (Draigo and paladins)
Salamanders (STOP. Hammertime! that and incinerators come on, you know you want to. )
mantis warriors (mostly Mantis Religiosa)

**tech66**

Could someone please define what an Ordo Xenos army would be?

Is it Deathwarch & Inquisitor(s) like in the first Eisenhorn book?

**Cerebrium**

Yep, Deathwatch Marines led by an Inquisitor.

Anyway, I agree. GK is great for counts-as, even just with henchmen/Coteaz.

I'm using it for my own chapter.

**gendoikari87**

Cerebrium wrote:Yep, Deathwatch Marines led by an Inquisitor.

Anyway, I agree. GK is great for counts-as, even just with henchmen/Coteaz.

I'm using it for my own chapter.

me too, but just the first squads of the first four companies. Mostly because my chapter works with the adeptus mechanicus.

**Asuron**

so after several weeks of pouring over the codex and listening to other people and their ideas. I think it's safe to say that codex: grey knights offers a better base set of rules for a lot of counts as armies. namely off the top of my head:

Pre-heresy Thousand suns (should be obvious why)

I'm just going to stop you there and say no
Psychic power does not suddenly mean they represent an army who also has them
As I understand it from A Thousand Sons, they used their powers to predict enemy movement, blocking enemy strategies before they took off, while using powers that harmed sparingly
Not to mention their wargear is radically different to anything the Thousand Sons used

Now take Grey knights and there psychic powers and tell me how they would represent Pre Heresy Thousand Sons with that info on hand

Don't take this as a shot at you though, was just trying to clarify why I think it wouldn't work.

**Bruteboss**

Real Vulkan salamanders do their shtick better than GK proxies.

The best GK count as by far is Adeptus Mechanicus. Exotic weapons, armor and machines not found anywhere else in the Imperium make it a pretty seemless transition. The abundance of psychic powers leave something to be desired though, as I don't think the Mechanicus would have much of that.

Edit: asuron, how about warp quake, psychic communion, the summoning or any number of defensive buff powers the GK possess. You want to represent "blocking enemy strategies" I can't think of a better example than warp quake. Granted the basic squads using hammerhand is a little unlike the thousand sons, but the GM, librarian and brother captain all seem like fair approximations of a pre-heresy Thousand Son commander.

**Asuron**

Bruteboss wrote:Real Vulkan salamanders do their shtick better than GK proxies.

The best GK count as by far is Adeptus Mechanicus. Exotic weapons, armor and machines not found anywhere else in the Imperium make it a pretty seemless transition. The abundance of psychic powers leave something to be desired though, as I don't think the Mechanicus would have much of that.

Edit: asuron, how about warp quake, psychic communion, the summoning or any number of defensive buff powers the GK possess. You want to represent "blocking enemy strategies" I can't think of a better example than warp quake. Granted the basic squads using hammerhand is a little unlike the thousand sons, but the GM, librarian and brother captain all seem like fair approximations of a pre-heresy Thousand Son commander.

Actually thats a fair point
I'd argue though that Thousand sons predicted their enemies movements by lookng into the future, not actuallly using defensive psychic move to protect themselves
You'd still have to work around the fact as well that Grey Knigt equipment doesn't represent anyting they actually used among their equipment

**gendoikari87**

The abundance of psychic powers leave something to be desired though, as I don't think the Mechanicus would have much of that.

well you have two options here:

1) for competative lists: represent this ability by modeling either combat drugs on them or bionics

2) ignore the psychic powers, just because they have them doesn't mean you have to use them.

You'd still have to work around the fact as well that Grey Knigt equipment doesn't represent anyting they actually used among their equipment

so the second most psychic SM chapter, second ONLY to the grey knights, don't use force weapons? Personally TS converted with kopeshes and a sphinx (from the new Tomb kings) as a Dread knight would look awesome.

**Kroothawk**

Codex Dark Eldar is equally good as a "count as" army book for all lightly armoured quick armies, e.g. Kroot

Too bad the Dark Eldar miniatures are too good to pass, otherwise I would start my Kroot Mercenaries.

**gendoikari87**

I'd argue though that Thousand sons predicted their enemies movements by lookng into the future

Coteaz's spy network....? he wouldn't be a thousand son but he's only 100 points a good cannon fodder for actually having that ability.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kroothawk wrote:Codex Dark Eldar is equally good as a "count as" army book for all lightly armoured quick armies, e.g. Kroot
Too bad the Dark Eldar miniatures are too good to pass, otherwise I would start my Kroot Mercenaries.

?!?! NICE idea..... actually with the system they have and the genetic mutations kroot get from eating dead enemies.... OOOOOOH that's a good idea......

**Ketara**

Asuron wrote:
Bruteboss wrote:Real Vulkan salamanders do their shtick better than GK proxies.

The best GK count as by far is Adeptus Mechanicus. Exotic weapons, armor and machines not found anywhere else in the Imperium make it a pretty seemless transition. The abundance of psychic powers leave something to be desired though, as I don't think the Mechanicus would have much of that.

Edit: asuron, how about warp quake, psychic communion, the summoning or any number of defensive buff powers the GK possess. You want to represent "blocking enemy strategies" I can't think of a better example than warp quake. Granted the basic squads using hammerhand is a little unlike the thousand sons, but the GM, librarian and brother captain all seem like fair approximations of a pre-heresy Thousand Son commander.

Actually thats a fair point
I'd argue though that Thousand sons predicted their enemies movements by lookng into the future, not actuallly using defensive psychic move to protect themselves
You'd still have to work around the fact as well that Grey Knigt equipment doesn't represent anyting they actually used among their equipment

You're just considering the Corvidae and the Athaneans if you're talking about scrying and telepathy.

Remember, there was also the Pyrae, Pavoni, and Raptora

The Pyrae are pyrokinetic, able to both generate and control fire. Their powers can also be used to make them effectively immune to pain or injury caused by fire. They can project the fire they generate in many ways, principally as variations of shields or projectiles1. The temperature and lethality of flame can be controlled; as it is warp-powered, Pyrae fire can become exceedingly lethal to not only anything it alights to, but also anything in the immediate vicinity of the flames. Pyrae teachings also seemed to include the ability to control and manipulate automata, such as Robot1, and even Titans

The Pavonae are apparently able to use their psychically-generated powers to manipulate body chemistry, in themselves and others. In skilled practitioners this can be displayed as both the control over one's appearance (being able to - within reason - resculpt one's facial features into a more pleasing cast). Another simple use known of was making oneself immune to dehydration. Direct battlefield demonstration of Pavonae abilities tended to focus on the offensive use of lightning generated from one's own nervous system,and the ability to boil the blood of their enemies1. Pavoni are also able to use their abilities in the field of healing.

The Raptorae are telekines, trained in using their own telekinetic power as a means of both offense and defense. Offensively, Raptorae could direct physical objects at enemies, as well as simply use their powers to directly manipulate enemies; ripping parts of them off, for example. Defensively, they generate 'kine shields', barriers of invisible physical force that blocked attacks. Kine shields were not just generated for personal protection; Raptorae could also project this ability to shield others. The largest kine shield known to have been achieved covered the entire city of Tizca, generated from the Raptorae pyramid by a massed group of cult members. Generating such shields can be draining for the marine or marines involved, with damage inflicted on the shield eventually taking a toll: The Raptora group generating the Tizca kine shield suffered fatalities whilst resisting particularly high-yield weaponry

**gendoikari87**

pyrae.... damn new army ideas.... GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!!

**tech66**

My Counts As Ordo Xenos Army:

HQ
5x Ordo Xenos Inquisitors using Female Dark Eldar Wyches models

Troops
2x - 5x GK Strike Squads using Deathwatch models
They would have the storm bolters but ignore the Nemesis Force Weapon & The Aegis rules

Elites
10x Warrior Acolytes w/ Storm Bolters & Power Armor & a 2 melta-guns
10x Warrior Acolytes w/ Storm Bolters & Power Armor & a 2 melta-guns
10x Psykers
10x Death Cult Assains
10x Crusaders

**gendoikari87**

I don't think you can have 5 inquisitors....

**Kroothawk**

It is one for each of the 5 HQ slots

**gendoikari87**

Kroothawk wrote:It is one for each of the 5 HQ slots

There's not 5 HQ slots..... there's 2.......

**Cerebrium**

gendoikari87 wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:It is one for each of the 5 HQ slots
There's not 5 HQ slots..... there's 2.......

>The Joke

>Your head.

**gendoikari87**

Cerebrium wrote:
gendoikari87 wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:It is one for each of the 5 HQ slots
There's not 5 HQ slots..... there's 2.......

>The Joke

>Your head.

your joke.... not funny.

**Ratbarf**

I thought it was pretty good.