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Well i didn't take any pictures as this battle is from Friday last week but it's still pretty fresh in my mind as it was short and sweet.

Orks "'Ead Manglers Lads" - 2,000 points


HQ

1 x Warboss - power klaw, attack squig & cybork body

1 x Big Mek - kustom force field

Elite

5 x Lootas

5 x Lootas

4 x Nobz w/ Battlewagon - power klaw, 2 x big choppas, waaagh! Banner, bosspole, cybork bodies & Painboy - Wagon w/ big shoota & deffrolla

Troops

5 x Nobz w/ Battlewagon - power klaw, 3 x big choppas, waaagh! Banner, bosspole,cybork bodies & Painboy - Wagon w/ big shoota & deffrolla

20 x Shoota Boyz - Nob w/ power klaw & boss pole

20 x Shoota Boyz - Nob w/ power klaw & boss pole

20 x Shoota Boyz - Nob w/ power klaw & boss pole

15 x Gretchin - Runtherd w/ grot-pod

Fast Attack

1 x Deffcopter - twin-linked rokkits & buzzsaw

1 x Deffcopter - twin-linked rokkits & buzzsaw

Heavy Support

1 x Battlewagon - big shoota & deffrolla

1 x Battlewagon - big shoota & deffrolla

1 x Battlewagon - big shoota & deffrolla

Total: 2,000


Eldar - 2,000 points

HQ

Eldrad

4 x Warlocks - not sure on powers

Elite

5 x Striking Scorpions w/ Kandandras

10 x Harlequins w/ Shadowseer

Troops

10 x Guardians w/ Warlock - EML platform

8 x Dire Avengers w/ Exarch - Exarch w/ defend

Fast Attack

3 x Wasp Walkers - star cannon & scatter laser

Heavy Support

3 x War Walkers - star cannon & scatter laser

5 x Dark Reapers w/ Exarch - Exarch w/ crackshot

5 x Dark Reapers w/ Exarch - Exarch w/ crackshot


Game: Anniliation + Dawn of War

Deployment

I won the roll off and decided to go second as I wanted to see how John (guy I was playing with) deployed, plus his board isn't the full 4ft width so getting into assault shouldn't be a issue. John deployed nothing taking a leaf out my own book, I deployed nothing too as I wanted the Wagons to all roll on together.

* Tactical Notes

Depending on where John puts his units I'll bring on the Wagons together and move them up with the Big Meks Wagon hiding together, I put the Big Mek in a seperate Wagon so I don't have my eggs all in one basket if with the Warboss and other Nobz unit. I'll have to run the Lootas on and get them into terrain for cover and the Grots will just have to linger about. Once the Lootas have setup I'll use them to nail the War Walkers from a distance while the Wagons move up, shoot and then assault.

Turn 1

John moves his units onto the board with the War Walkers and Eldar with the Warlocks using a tower ruin for cover while a unit of Dark Reapers move into the ground floor of the tower failing to get a get enough run to move up higher. Guardians and Avengers come in near them with the Guardians in front and Avengers behind. The other unit of Reapers comes on the top left flank and doesn't do well for moving either while the Harlequins come in near them behind a arcane ruin. The Scorpions and Wasp Walkers stay in reserve.

My turn I bring all the Battlewagons 12" on more or less in the centre with the three Boyz Wagons up front. Both squads of Lootas run onto the shrine ruin my side with Grots hiding behind it so LOS cannot be drawn to them.

* Tactical Notes

Pretty quick first turn we both of us losing a turn of shooting at the opponent. Luckily for me though the Dark Reapers aren't in position so won't be able to shoot much next turn.

Next turn I'll move up the Boyz Wagons and blast the exposed infantry with mass shoota fire. I'll direct the Nobz towards the War Walkers as my placement of Lootas has blocked LOS to them thanks to the shrine ruin, I've now got LOS on half the board which leaves Harlequins which I have to roll for and the Dark Reapers.

Turn 2

John calls for reserves with the Scorpions outflanking on the bottom left flank. Reapers move into position through terrain, Eldrad casts fortune on the Avengers and I think that's about it.

I call for reserves with both Kopters coming on the top left flank by the Dark Reapers, Kopters fire and kill a single Reaper. Lootas open fire and waste some Scorpions. Boyz Battlewagons move up and between them unload into the Dire Avengers and Guardians with big shoota support which sees the Guardians dead and the Avengers with six left.

Kopters move through terrain to get into assault, only one makes the move and is killed in combat earning Eldar a kill point.

Kill points - Orks: 1 Eldar: 1

* Tactical Notes

Ok first kill point for me but the Kopter also gave one away, I did seriously think it would do it in assault but the Eldar got lucky with two 6+ and I failed both saves :( . I think the Kopter left is on borrowed time thanks to the Exarchs crackshot EML so I don't expect that to be around next turn.

My plan is to move the Wagons forward bail out the Boyz and send them to assault Dire Avengers and Eldrad, if possible multi assault the War Walkers but I'll make sure the Nob can reach them with the trusty power klaw. Lootas will keep punishing the Scorpions as the Nobz will move up to take out the War Walkers.

Turn 3

Wasp Walkers arrive from reserve on the left side of the board only scattering 2". Avengers move around side of a small keep to use to block LOS. Scorpions move up along with the Harlequins.

Shooting Dark Reapers fire at the single Kopter but fails to wound, other Reapers take a pot shot at a Battlewagon side armour but makes the save with the KFF. Wasp Walkers fire into a Loota unit and kill them all.

Orks turn two Boyz Wagon move up 12" and the Boyz bail out ready to assault Dark Reapers and Eldrad & Co. Other Boyz Wagon tries to move 6" and tank shock the Avengers but it's too short. Nobz Wagons move up 12" following the Boyz Wagon by the Avengers keeping three under the KFF. Kopter moves through terrain ok ready to face the Reapers.

Shooting Kopter blows up a Reaper with rokkit fire, Lootas blast the Wasp Walkers wrecking one, shaking one and weapon destroyed on another taking the scatter laser as the Boyz remaining in the Wagon blast the Avengers off the table scoring a kill point.

In assault Boyz charge the Dark Reapers and kill them earning a point while the other Boyz charge Eldrad and the Warlocks and kill all the Warlocks, a Boy dies in combat and the Nob takes a wound. The Kopter kills a single Reaper and takes a wound, combat remains on.

Kill points - Orks: 4 Eldar: 2

* Tactical Notes

Mass shooting for the win taking out the Avengers shame I couldn't deffrolla them but never mind. Assault worked well, the small weak units of Eldar just cannot take that punishment from that many Orks. I would have though Eldrad might have gone down though with all those attacks, now stuck in combat and he's T4 and the Orks S3..

Next turn I'll finish off the Scorpions with the Lootas and hopefully that Dethkopter can win in combat. I'll then send a unit of Nobz towards the Wasp Walkers and one towards the Harlequins while the Boyz which killed the Avengers can move up and power klaw the other Walkers.

Turn 4

Harlequins move up ready to assault the remaining Lootas while the left over Scorpions move up to support but still won't make combat. The War Walkers move out away from the tower ruin leaving Eldrad to his fate.

Shooting Harlequins blast the Lootas but only kill one. That's about it...

In combat Eldrad kills more Orks but takes a wound. Deffkopter kills another Reaper but combat remains. Harlequins assault and slaughter the Lootas.

Orks turn the Gretchin get brave and move to assault the Scorpions as the Warbosses Battlewagon smashes through terrain and tank shocks the Harlequins, the Warboss and Nobz bail out as the other Nobz unit smashes through terrain to support them. Boyz which killed the Reapers in combat move through terrain to assault Eldrad while the other Wagon full of Boyz moves up 12" and the Boyz bail out, though not before the War Walkers get hit by the other two Battlewagons with tank shocks leaving just a single War Walker left.

Shooting Nobz blast the Harlequins with sluggas but do nothing. Gretchin blast the Scorpions but all ok. Boyz blast the single War Walker and shake it.

In assault Nobz and Warboss charge the Harlequins and clean house killing them all. Gretchin assault the Scorpions and the Runtherd kills the Scorpions with the grot prod earning a kill point. Eldrad gets lost in the mass sea of green and is killed, though the other Boyz fail to assault the War Walker thanks to disembarking in a river and not making it through terrain. The last Reaper gets smashed in combat by the Deffkopters buzzsaw.

Kill points Orks: 8 Eldar: 3

* Tactical Notes

Just two units left for the Eldar; Kandandras or whatever his name is, I nick named him Scorpion King lol and the single War Walker which is in the country of Boyz and deffrollas, lol.

Plan is pretty simple - assault Scorpion King and rip his head off and deffrolla the single War Walker if that fails assault it.

Turn 5

Scorpion King moves and assaults the Gretchin and stomps them all flat in revenge for killing the Striking Scorpions. War Walker cannot shoot so that's about it!

Orks turn Nobz move and mass assault Scorpion King, he dies. John conceeds as he only has the War Walker left which would have met the same end.

Kill points Orks: 10 Eldar: 4

Summary

John was just trying the Wasp Walkers in this list but over all I think he could have took some better units. The Wasp Walkers cost some serious points and are just as weak as normal War Walkers, personally I'd stick with them.

Tactics wise John should have put his unit of War Walkers in front of the Avengers and Guardian units to get cover but more importantly in this game to block assault from my Orks. If the Orks had attacked the War Walkers he could have either piled into assault or blast with mass fire power.

The Harlequins I've never used before but work as I suspected, cost a lot of points need a Shadowseer and can't take a punch in combat.

Scorpions didn't do a fat lot outflanking this was due to my deployment with my units setup in the centre of the board keeping away from edges, when the Scorpions did come on they just walked into a torrent of fire from the Lootas and died in the end to a grot prod! I would have personally kept these back as a counter attack unit supporting Eldrad and the Warlocks.

I know John was testing some units so I'm not sure if he's going to use this list or not. I'd keep Eldrad as he's a good HQ and if War Walkers are the theme I'd pack them in the heavy support and nothing else. Everything else I'd consider if worth it or not.

Really enjoyed this game despite getting stomped in combat

The game helped me decide on certain units too, I don't think I will bother with wasp walkers again, their bs4 is nice but the extra points don't seem worth it, I'm going to stick with my normal walkers. Harlequins seem very expensive for what they did, they just can't take a punch when they get charged, 210pts for a 1 charge unit is too much. Scorpions didn't do much again, even with the help of Karandras, I'm pretty sure this was as much to do with my poor deployment of them.

My love of named HQ units is starting to cost me dear, I would be better off spending points elsewhere but the phoenix lords appeal to my fluffy nature lol.

I think the reapers may be out too, but for a different reason. I've had 5 games with them and I've had some good luck with them, its just that I would rather take war walkers, they are cheaper, tend to stick around longer and more shooty.

Eldrad is definately staying in my list, I'm not going to spend points on a warlock bodyguard for him again though, they didn't do much apart from delay the inevitable for a turn.

All in all a good learning game for me, learned some useful tricks (not shooting at units you are going to assault if they are on 2 different terrain levels for one!) and getting some kill points was a bonus too!

Dude at least you got kill points this time!

Wasp Walkers I felt were like normal ones but can deep strike and better BS - how much are they a unit using identical setup to a normal Walker unit?

Harlequins were utter fail. They rely on not been shot thanks to the Shadowseer and TBH only killed 75 points worth of Lootas and then got battered by Nobz.

Just remember fluff = bad in games well, mostly. Though on HQ I think Eldrad is pretty bad ass definately worth taking him.

Reaper TBF only work against infantry and small units like Space Marines or monstrous creatures etc.

*Whispers - Wave Serpents lol.

If the wasp walkers had been the same set up as normal walkers they would come in at 240pts, I completely forgot to use their jetpacks which could have possibly kept them out of the way of that nasty deathrolltankstompshock thing you did lol, the other benefit is that they come as a troops choice (for some weird FW reason), if I do use them again there is no way I would have starcannons on them.

Reapers worked well against nids and tau, against any form of mech they have been poo although eml with crackshot is awesome but ultimately a luxury I can't really justify.

Next experiment is possibly going to involve wave serpents, war walkers, eldrad and not wasting 215pts on a fluffy hq unit lol

Right so identical setups how much more are Wasp Walkers over normal Walkers?

The jetpacks just lets them move 12", with tank shock you either move out the way or death or glory. They can only dodge if skimmers so wouldn't make no difference.

I'd say cool batrep, but seeing as how I'm a Eldar fan and an Ork hater, it just can't be done

The eldar list was a bit out there though, but it was already said that Metallicarule was trying some things out.

Karandras is my favorite eldar character but he hardly ever earns his points back. It's pretty much common knowledge that the phoenix lords are no good for competition.
Harlequins tend to work better as a smaller unit of 6-7 for counterstrike purposes. That also keeps them from being a 200+ point sink.
Wasp walkers are probably a bit costly, but the BS4 is definitely nice. 3x Wasps with scatter lasers = 225pts, 3x warwalkers with lasers = 180.
War walkers should all have 2x scatter lasers.
Reapers usually don't work out well unless you're playing MEQ.

I'm a big fan of 3 squads of 3 walkers with lasers. 72 outflanking str6 shots for 540 points is a steal.

Yeah I know the jetpacks wouldn't have helped with the actual tank shock but in theory if I had used them more effectively I wouldn't have been in range of the shock. I should have moved them after deepstriking really then used them for shooting next turn, I should have kept as far away from the trucks as possible, instead they got shot to pieces and had their movement taken away from them, you live and learn lol

Yes Lt. Coldfire, I have been using some odd (to put it mildly) lists, I used to play 2nd Ed 40k and have only just returned to the hobby, this was my 5th game with the 5th ed rules so I'm just trying stuff out, Mercer has helped me by suggesting some lists to try out to be competitive and I'll be trying out his mass wave serpents list soon

I've only had one game where a phoenix lord made his points back, it was maugan ra in a game I had against nids, I will admit that it was more luck than judgement though lol

Happy face for the ork win !

Lt. Coldfire wrote:

I'm a big fan of 3 squads of 3 walkers with lasers. 72 outflanking str6 shots for 540 points is a steal.

That's pretty cool. John, you should really do something like this if going War Walkers and make the rest of the list around them.

Metallicarule wrote:Yeah I know the jetpacks wouldn't have helped with the actual tank shock but in theory if I had used them more effectively I wouldn't have been in range of the shock. I should have moved them after deepstriking really then used them for shooting next turn, I should have kept as far away from the trucks as possible, instead they got shot to pieces and had their movement taken away from them, you live and learn lol

Yes Lt. Coldfire, I have been using some odd (to put it mildly) lists, I used to play 2nd Ed 40k and have only just returned to the hobby, this was my 5th game with the 5th ed rules so I'm just trying stuff out, Mercer has helped me by suggesting some lists to try out to be competitive and I'll be trying out his mass wave serpents list soon

I've only had one game where a phoenix lord made his points back, it was maugan ra in a game I had against nids, I will admit that it was more luck than judgement though lol

Hmm yeah jetpacks move in assault phase, could have been out of range maybe as 6 S10 hits from the deffrolla put some pain in, auto pen!

You've got to do Wave Serpents mate!

Mightmagic wrote: Happy face for the ork win !

Unless they released IA11, the current rules for Wasps are a bit different from those discussed here. First off, they are troop choices, second their Jump Jets allow them to move 24" in movement phase ignoring terrain (though this move disallows shooting).
Their point cost is, iirc, 10 points more base with a bit fairer prices on the weapons due to getting more out of them from BS4.

Yeah, the dual SL option looks pretty good, thats an insane amount of shots, I'm sure that combined with some crafty Eldrad usage they could really bring the pain

I think my next game (of epic proxy) will be based around walkers and serpents, fire dragons in the serpents for some anti tank goodness. Would I be right in saying that scatter lasers could deal with light mech at a push?

Mahtamori, I used the pdf rules for the wasp walkers that I found on the FW site, I didn't really have much luck with them so we didn't really check the rules. The tank shock turned them into roadkill lol

Guide-seer babysitting War Walker sqauds are nasty, but the enemy will want to eat them alive, and fast...

Yup, Scatter Laser is pretty much THE Eldar weapon of choice against flimsy armour.
Essentially, Scatter Lasers are significantly better against AV10 than Bright Lances or Missile Launchers. 50% chance at 1/6 glance or 2/3 penetration is worse than 4x50% chance at 1/6 glance or 1/3 penetration.
Against AV11 it's a bit closer, but lasers are more versatile.

The difference between War Walkers and Wasps are:
* +1 BS
* lose Scout, but gain Deep Strike
* able to fly 24" at cost of shooting (note that they can still assault, so this can be used to quickly tie up units without S4+ CC weapons)
* Wasps are troop choice (0-1) and can therefore claim objectives
* Point difference in base cost and possibly in weapons (haven't got codex with me)

All in all, I find them excessively attractive due to the simple fact that it's Troop-choice firepower that's not a point sink like Guardians are.

A hint about Reapers, btw, is that most people who do use them (they require preferably MEQ targets, and good positioning) is Tempest Launcher on Exarch with a minimal squad supporting him. I seldom see lists with multiple aspect warriors of that sort.
I personally don't run them, mostly because they don't fit in with the rest of my army (it's a mech force)

Lol talk about a lopsided list fight. 40k equivalent of kicking a kitten.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mahtamori wrote:
* Wasps are troop choice (0-1) and can therefore claim objectives

Vehicles can never score unless somethign specifically allows them to, regardless of slot.

Wasps are terrible, my condolences if the Eldar player purchased them.

BlueDagger wrote:

Mahtamori wrote:
* Wasps are troop choice (0-1) and can therefore claim objectives

Vehicles can never score unless somethign specifically allows them to, regardless of slot.

Wow, really? Well that sucks lol.

Mahtamori wrote:Guide-seer babysitting War Walker sqauds are nasty, but the enemy will want to eat them alive, and fast...

Yup, Scatter Laser is pretty much THE Eldar weapon of choice against flimsy armour.
Essentially, Scatter Lasers are significantly better against AV10 than Bright Lances or Missile Launchers. 50% chance at 1/6 glance or 2/3 penetration is worse than 4x50% chance at 1/6 glance or 1/3 penetration.
Against AV11 it's a bit closer, but lasers are more versatile.

The difference between War Walkers and Wasps are:
* +1 BS
* lose Scout, but gain Deep Strike
* able to fly 24" at cost of shooting (note that they can still assault, so this can be used to quickly tie up units without S4+ CC weapons)
* Wasps are troop choice (0-1) and can therefore claim objectives
* Point difference in base cost and possibly in weapons (haven't got codex with me)

All in all, I find them excessively attractive due to the simple fact that it's Troop-choice firepower that's not a point sink like Guardians are.

A hint about Reapers, btw, is that most people who do use them (they require preferably MEQ targets, and good positioning) is Tempest Launcher on Exarch with a minimal squad supporting him. I seldom see lists with multiple aspect warriors of that sort.
I personally don't run them, mostly because they don't fit in with the rest of my army (it's a mech force)

Cheers for the info So far I've mostly been using one squadron of 3 walkers with a scatter laser/EML loadout but I think I'm going to try them with dual scatter lasers, for some reason I assumed that if I equipped them with 2 scatter lasers they would be TL, I should take more notice of my codex lol.

As much as I love the aspects I have I've found that for the points they really don't seem to do much, I admit that this is probably as much to do with my inexperience and I'm still struggling with deployment and the finer nuances of movement and screening, I'm sure that in time that will come.

I'm a fan of using eldrad or a guide seer to get the best out of my walkers but its exactly as you say, they become a priority for the other player, I'm hoping that with time, experience and taking the advice I'm given on board I'll be able to put together a better list. At the moment everything is all shiny and new to me and I'm enjoying finding out what works and what doesn't, when I play Mercer I do find out the hard way lol

Mercer plays a pretty solid boys list, but it's a bit different from what you'll find in a "common" 40k army. It works for boys, but other armies tend to mech up a lot more.

You'll want templates and markers against his army, I find my Fire Prisms really come in handy against a green tide, and it's one of those armies where a tripple-flamer Storm squad can shine.

You'll find that going for the single-model squads will give you the best KP for your money in KP games, while it's all about denying objectives in objectives games. Sadly Eldar armies aren't all that killy, so destroying that many troop choices will be hard. Learning last-turn precision tank shocking can steal victories.

Metallicarule wrote: when I play Mercer I do find out the hard way lol

can't say I didn't tell you .

But here's what works and what doesn't from when I played Eldar, though keeping in mind I used a mech list . Everything is in a nutshell and just my opinion btw as I just went down a single path (hehe see what I did there) and went mech straight away.

Farseers = win, psychic powers helping the army are cool.

Warlocks = win see above!

Avatar = meh, ok in foot list but not that awesome.

Harlequins - meh as you found out. Expensive can dish it out but not take it.

Striking Scorpions - meh tougher c.c elite unit but no fleet means they cannot get into the fight.

Howling Banshees - meh pretty weak 4+ armour save.

Fire Dragons - awesome suicide units which are nice and cheap

Wraithguard - ok in foot list only

Dire Avengers - cool bread and butter some Exarch powers can be useful but I took mine naked.

Guardians - cool if you want cheap troops

Guardian Jetbikes - cooler work well for objective camping and grabbing at last minute with turbo boost.

Swooping Hawks - meh

Warp Spiders - meh could be useful for side and rear armour shots

Vypers - ok in jetbike armies I guess, seem expensive.

Shining Spears - ok in jetbike armies.

Dark Reapers - meh only good against infantry and monstrous creatures, really expensive

Weapon Battery - could be cool in foot lists only.

Wraithlord - cheap monstrous creature but serious expensive upgrades.

Fire Prism - cool and suits mech lists, adds anti tank and troop

War Walkers - not bad but needs multiples.

That's it, not sure if I've missed anything off though.

mercer wrote:

Metallicarule wrote: when I play Mercer I do find out the hard way lol

can't say I didn't tell you .

But here's what works and what doesn't from when I played Eldar, though keeping in mind I used a mech list . Everything is in a nutshell and just my opinion btw as I just went down a single path (hehe see what I did there) and went mech straight away.

I know, I must seem like I don't listen but I do honestly, my lists are getting slightly unfluffier as every game goes by lol. I'm enjoying using odd lists but our game tomorrow is going to be a bit of a change from that, going to try something a bit better

I did see what you did right there, I'm just trying every door before I choose my path lol

Makes sense dude it's what I did. I just know what works and what doesn't

Maybe the Wasps could have gone after the lootas? 24" Move + assault could be awesome had they gone down a flank, and the lootas can't even scratch their paint in combat!

Good batrep mercer!

*Edit*

I remembered a hilarious Karandras tactic!
See the idea is because Karandras is so small, its really easy to infiltrate him out of line of sight. He has fleet, and he can potentially first turn assault a vehicle/vehicle squadron/infantry unit with a huge number of powerfist attacks! Just make sure there is sufficient terrain on the board, or else this doesn't work so well...