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First thing's first, here's my list:

Wolf Lord (225 points)
1 with Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, Thunder Hammer, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Belt of Russ, Saga of the Bear

Rune Priest (150 points)
1 with Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, Runic Weapon, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Chooser of the Slain, Saga of the Beastslayer, Living Lightning, Tempest’s Wrath

Wolf Guard Pack (152 points)
4 with Power Armor, Power Fist, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades

Dreadnought (125 points)
1 with Twin-linked Autocannon, Twin-linked Autocannon, Smoke Launchers, Searchlight

Venerable Dreadnought (200 points)
1 with Plasma Cannon, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon (with built in Heavy Flamer), Smoke Launchers, Searchlight, Saga of Majesty

Grey Hunters Pack (170 points)
2 with Power Armor, Bolter, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Plasma Gun, Frag and Krak Grenades
1 with Power Armor, Bolter, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Wolf Standard, Frag and Krak Grenades
7 with Power Armor, Bolter, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades

Grey Hunters Pack (170 points)
2 with Power Armor, Bolter, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Plasma Gun, Frag and Krak Grenades
1 with Power Armor, Bolter, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Wolf Standard, Frag and Krak Grenades
7 with Power Armor, Bolter, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades

Grey Hunters Pack (170 points)
2 with Power Armor, Bolter, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Plasma Gun, Frag and Krak Grenades
1 with Power Armor, Bolter, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Wolf Standard, Frag and Krak Grenades
7 with Power Armor, Bolter, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades

Grey Hunters Pack (170 points)
2 with Power Armor, Bolter, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Plasma Gun, Frag and Krak Grenades
1 with Power Armor, Bolter, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Wolf Standard, Frag and Krak Grenades
7 with Power Armor, Bolter, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades

Long Fangs Pack* (150 points)
1 with Power Armor, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades
2 with Power Armor, Close Combat Weapon, Heavy Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades
1 with Power Armor, Close Combat Weapon, Missile Launcher, Frag and Krak Grenades
2 with Power Armor, Close Combat Weapon, Plasma Cannon, Frag and Krak Grenades

Long Fangs Pack* (160 points)
1 with Power Armor, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades
2 with Power Armor, Close Combat Weapon, Heavy Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades
1 with Power Armor, Close Combat Weapon, Missile Launcher, Frag and Krak Grenades
2 with Power Armor, Close Combat Weapon, Lascannon, Frag and Krak Grenades

Total Points: 1842/1850

* Currently proxing with opponent's permission as I figure out a weapons sorting I like. So far these two setups have been successful. I will not be purchasing all Missile Launchers. Expensive, unimaginative, and not very fluffy.

Other models available in my collection include the following:

1 Rhino.

1 Drop Pod.

10 Wolf Scouts (1 Meltagun, 1 Mark of the Wulfen).

1 Wolf Guard with Combi-Melta and Power/Frost weapon (unpainted).

1 Wolf Guard with Bolt Pistol and Close Combat Weapon.

2 Wolf Guard with Bolt Pistol and Power/Frost weapon (unpainted).

1 Rune Priest in Power Armor with Plasma Pistol.

1 model in Power Armor with dual Wolf Claws (alternates between Wolf Guard and Lone Wolf).

1 model in Power Armor with Thunderhammer and Stormshield (alternates between Wolf Lord, Wolf Guard Battle Leader, and Lone Wolf).

Not the worst list in the world, but obviously deficient in some areas. I think there's a whopping 4 weapons that can even scratch AV14 at range. I want to tweak this list to be a little more effective against a larger array of opponents than I currently play. But first some background:

I'm against Special Characters without your opponents permission. Personally I find it absurd that is no longer a core rule of the game. I've yet to find a special character that was truly balanced in any way. I'll play against them with little comment (I don't mind the odds being against me), but it does sour the game in my opinion. Even if I'm victorious. I refuse to field them myself usually , and never a Space Wolf special character.

I also find Thunderwolf Cavalry incredibly silly, but there is something about them. I'd prefer not to run any. One would be cool, but one is also useless since Saga of the Hunter doesn't affect it.

The nearest game store is an hour away. Second nearest I think is 3 hours. As such, I don't often play with people outside my group of friends. Three of us are highly competitive (though I suppose I'm less so since I try to temper my lists with some fluff) and tend to make "all-comer" lists. I've placed in tournaments before and plan on doing so again once my army is painted.

Currently I'm not running armor, which has only been a problem once (which means nothing really, but figured I'd stress I don't feel the need for armor). When I started with Space Wolves in 3rd edition I was completely mechanized, with Thunderwolf symbols everywhere. Only one model of that army still survives, though a second had been reborn. When I started playing W40K again the 5th edition codex had just come out (I played Orks briefly in 4th edition; spent more time building them than playing them) so I felt the timing was perfect. I know that the current global meta is to mech' up, but I've been there and done that (albeit I did it with a lot more Blood Claws; an interesting parallel in how I've changed and how the basic troops of the Space Wolves mature as well). I'd prefer to walk, knowing the limitations.

I primarily play against Tyranids, Chaos Space Marines, and Imperial Guard. I rarely play against fully mechanized lists but I want to be able to handle them. I have a whole lot of S7 shots so AV12 and less shouldn't be an issue. AV13 and AV14 worries me a little. I'm not positive how much AV14 my foes can actually throw on the table (Leman Russ Battle Tanks aside).

But please, other than Special Characters, suggest anything to change the list you feel like. Just explain why! I need to know where to go before I purchase anything else.

Edit: Cleaned up a formatting error and the AV14 clarification in the second to last paragraph. Also fixed point cost in Dreadnought.

Welcome to Dakka man, I like what you're aiming for here, particularly with your reasoning against TWC and the load-out of your Long Fangs, I'm also a fan of foot-wolves, despite mechanised being typically superior.

A few suggestions I'd make:

- Your Wolf Lord is very expensive for what he provides. Whilst they're not the most competitive of choices, they can certainly deal out a lot of damage. Nonetheless, I work on the basis that if you have a Storm Shield, you don't need Saga of the Bear and if you have an i1 weapon you typically need a Storm Shield. Hence, I'd ultimately recommend a Storm Shield which would make saga of the bear less necessary and therefore save you points. However, I also work on the principle that if you don't have a storm shield you should have atleast a belt of russ, so you know, swings and roundabouts! If you changed his Thunder Hammer to a Wolf Claw, Saga of the Bear would also be less necessary as he wouldn't be striking at initiative 1.

- I'd recommend dropping your Saga and Necklace off the rune priest; one of the best things about these guys is their punch-for-points value, which is very impressive. Ergo, I'd try to keep him cheap. Chooser's good though, particularly for BS5 LL.

- Your dreadnoughts, being the only armour in the list, are likely to not last very long IMHO. Whilst I love the models, I believe there is a time and place for dreads and a foot-slog list isn't it! If you can, I'd strongly recommend dropping these in favour for more Fangs and a Rune Priest or Wolf Guard. Also, I think your first (rifleman) dreadnought should be 125pts.

- Your Grey Hunters are all solid builds (led by the Wolf Guard I assume and hope?), although I'd recommend Meltaguns on a couple; whilst the Plasma's come as standard, the Melta's would provide superior anti-tank and can work wonders against enemies the plasma guns wouldn't, such as instant-death'ing, tanks and they only have marginally fewer shots than the Plasma's. It's also worth pointing out that any Wolf Guard leading the Grey Hunters are scoring, hence you may consider using Terminators instead for scoring Termies leading your 'hunters.

- Whilst not the most effective builds, I like your Long Fangs (particularly the 2nd squad). I find the best thing about these squads is that they don't need any extra shopping around and can just be made straight from a devastator boxed set. However, if you can I'd advise getting another squad as for such a list I'd be aiming for 3 Long Fangs and 4 Grey Hunters (led by termies) at 1500pts, let alone 1850pts.

I like what you're aiming for, however there's room for improvement IMHO. Hope that helps.

Just Dave wrote:Welcome to Dakka man, I like what you're aiming for here, particularly with your reasoning against TWC and the load-out of your Long Fangs, I'm also a fan of foot-wolves, despite mechanised being typically superior.

Thanks Dave. I've lurked here for years but finally got around to starting to post last week. One of a total of 3 websites that makes any sense for W40K in my opinion.

Just Dave wrote:- Your Wolf Lord is very expensive for what he provides. Whilst they're not the most competitive of choices, they can certainly deal out a lot of damage. Nonetheless, I work on the basis that if you have a Storm Shield, you don't need Saga of the Bear and if you have an i1 weapon you typically need a Storm Shield. Hence, I'd ultimately recommend a Storm Shield which would make saga of the bear less necessary and therefore save you points. However, I also work on the principle that if you don't have a storm shield you should have atleast a belt of russ, so you know, swings and roundabouts! If you changed his Thunder Hammer to a Wolf Claw, Saga of the Bear would also be less necessary as he wouldn't be striking at initiative 1.

Wolf Lords are only I5 and against my typical opponents I'll be striking second (Chaos Lord with Mark of Slaanesh is I6, various Tyranids are I6 or I7) anyways. I've found that against these two specific opponents I may as well write off any Independent Characters that don't have Eternal Warrior when it comes to the Assault Phase. I've been dabbling with using the TH/SS model in power armor as a Wolf Lord and so far its been 50/50 on if I need EW still. With the volume of dice being put out on one model thanks to the 5th Edition IC hate a 3+ save isn't usually enough.

Its possible my opponent misinformed me about his Daemon Weapon mind you. I'm under the impression that EW nullifies its ability to cause instant death. If this is not true then I'll consider cutting it off a Wolf Lord. Against Tyranids its been out and out necessary in some games so I'm hesitant to give it up.

Just Dave wrote:- I'd recommend dropping your Saga and Necklace off the rune priest; one of the best things about these guys is their punch-for-points value, which is very impressive. Ergo, I'd try to keep him cheap. Chooser's good though, particularly for BS5 LL.

The Necklace I agree should probably go. The Rune Priest is WS5 anyways and won't be going toe-to-toe with most enemy HQ choices. He's strong in HTH compared to a grunt, but not to a leader. Against non-HQ I'll probably be hitting on a 3+ anyways (though the idea of him slaying a Daemon Prince by hitting on a 3+ and wounding on a 2+ is fun to imagine, though statistically low).

I'm not sure I agree with dropping Saga of the Hunter though. Its a god send against Walkers and T6 Tyranids, though I suppose since I'm hitting on a 2+ anyways it might not be necessary. I'll have to play a few games without it to see if I miss it much.

Just Dave wrote:- Your dreadnoughts, being the only armour in the list, are likely to not last very long IMHO. Whilst I love the models, I believe there is a time and place for dreads and a foot-slog list isn't it! If you can, I'd strongly recommend dropping these in favour for more Fangs and a Rune Priest or Wolf Guard. Also, I think your first (rifleman) dreadnought should be 125pts.

Corrected the Dreadnought, I had Wolf Tail Talismans on there from forever ago and forgot to adjust the points from my list apparently (the total was correct). As for survivability, I only have a problem against Hive Guard so far. Against other armies they benefit from a 4+ save when a pack of Grey Hunters is in front of them. Slightly over half of them is obscured by their power armored brothers a lot of the time, so according to the rulebook that's a 4+ save against the results. And since they are tall enough, their guns have clear line of sight to the enemy usually.

Mind you, dropping them would free up slots for Wolf Scouts and Lone Wolves which I'm fans of. So far the Venerable Dreadnought has been the most useful, but I didn't want to just run him alone. The Rifledread hasn't been horrible either. What normally causes problems for your Dreadnoughts? They seem too slow to be of any use in a mechanized list, but maybe in a hybrid list then?

I guess I just haven't had too many problems once I stopped having them the front.

Just Dave wrote:- Your Grey Hunters are all solid builds (led by the Wolf Guard I assume and hope?), although I'd recommend Meltaguns on a couple; whilst the Plasma's come as standard, the Melta's would provide superior anti-tank and can work wonders against enemies the plasma guns wouldn't, such as instant-death'ing, tanks and they only have marginally fewer shots than the Plasma's. It's also worth pointing out that any Wolf Guard leading the Grey Hunters are scoring, hence you may consider using Terminators instead for scoring Termies leading your 'hunters.

You are correct about the Wolf Guard. Since I'm not mounted I'm not a huge fan of the Meltagun. Its not a whole lot stronger than a Plasma gun and has shorter range. It really doesn't become useful until you are close enough to hit the vehicle in HTH anyways.

I do like the idea of Terminators leading my Grey Hunters but thought it might not be worth it to free up the points to do so. Likewise with Combi-Meltas. With 4 Grey Hunter packs they add up quick. I'm liking that idea more and more though. And yes, scoring Wolf Guard have saved my behind a few times now.

I think I will probably stick with Plasma Guns in the Grey Hunter packs though. I had actually been running Meltaguns in them originally but the short range and with me walking made it feel like a waste. I've been having much more success with the Plasma Guns and focusing on non-vehicle targets primarily with my Grey Hunters. It probably helps that i haven't had to deal with a fully mechanized list, though mechanized Orks and Space Marines doesn't seem like it'd be a problem for Plasma Guns.

Just Dave wrote:- Whilst not the most effective builds, I like your Long Fangs (particularly the 2nd squad). I find the best thing about these squads is that they don't need any extra shopping around and can just be made straight from a devastator boxed set. However, if you can I'd advise getting another squad as for such a list I'd be aiming for 3 Long Fangs and 4 Grey Hunters (led by termies) at 1500pts, let alone 1850pts.

I've been thinking about it as well. So far I've tried it only twice, once with two of the first pack and once with two of the second pack. The later seems to be more successful unless against another foot slogger marine list in which the reverse is true. If I dropped a Dreadnought (or both) I would definitely run 3.

Just Dave wrote:I like what you're aiming for, however there's room for improvement IMHO. Hope that helps.

Thank you, and that's pretty much what I've thought. I like some of your ideas and will have to try them out. I'm all for keeping HQ choices as cheap as possible (I fear I'll never actually get to field 4 even though its an option).

What are your thoughts on Skyclaws? While definitely not the same, I've seen one of my regular opponents utilize 5 Chaos Raptors with Mark of Slaanesh to great effect in supporting an infantry based army. I'm wondering if the increased number of Skyclaws I could take would offset some of their weaknesses or not (WS3 only effects their survivability, not offensive punch). I'm thinking if I let the enemy crash on my Grey Hunters and pile in with the Skyclaws (like I do with Dreadnoughts and Lone Wolves currently) it might work.

At the same time, having proxied them in the past they seemed useless, at least against Noise Marines.