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Hey guys, this is my first list ever.
Space Marines [Ultramarines] 1500pts list:


HQ:

Captain w/ Relic Blade and SS & Artificer Armour...............................................................................160
&
Command Squad:4 vets w/ PW and SS...........................................................................................235
in RAZORBACK W/ TL HBS............................................................................................................040

TROOPS:

10 MAN TAC squad w/ Plasma Cannon & Plasma Gun [sgt has Combi Plasma & PF] COMBAT SQUADDED..220

10 MAN TAC squad w/ Multi-Melta & Melta Gun [sgt has Combi Melta & PF] COMBAT SQUADDED...........210

ELITES:

DREAD w/ Lascannon and CC weapon............................................................................................135

HEAVY SUPPORT:

LAND RAIDER CRUSADER ............................................................................................................250
LAND RAIDER NORMAL ...............................................................................................................250

TOTAL: 1500pts

I think that dual land raiders can bit kind of risky, but also very worth while, and i'm not sure if troops can ride in them [can they?]. If they can, my plan is to run the normal LR up towards the enemy tanks and pop the vehicles ASAP with the melta squad. Meanwhile the Crusader (with Plasma Squad) and the Captain and Command (and Razorback) move towards the infantry and tear them to shreds. Both the Melta and Plasma squad can branch off and grab objectives. and the Dread will go with the Melta land raider and fire his lascannon until he gets into CC. If LRs cant support normal troops I'll just have them running behind the tank with the appropriate weapons and use them for cover.

So what do you guys think? Please don't be harsh, this is my first list ever, but with saying this, don't be afraid to give constructive criticism. I want to do as well as I can . This is a small, but elite list.

Thanks guys

Lipsdapips

WOO New Zealand

The land raiders are fine bro, they will get alot of attention by anti tank weapons, but with Arm 14 all around, you'll be fine most of the time


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What part of NZ by the way?

"Sup cuz!"

A fellow kiwi!

I'd drop the dread for either some more troops or a couple of land speeders.

BBJ

I see, thanks for the advice and responses guys I was expecting worse responses tbh, but ye Big baby Jesus I probably need some more troops for objective security am I right?

P.S i'm from Auckland RogueYoPants

Well, I'm not from New Zealand, but I'll give some advice anyway.

Firstly, I think its quite risky to have only two troops at 1500 points. Most people follow the 1 troop choice per 500 points rule of thumb. I think you could scrap the dreadnought, who is the slowest on the field and get a third troops choice. Scouts or some marines.

Your vet command squad is very expensive, but I guess that's fine. You could probably augment their survivability even more by taking an apothecary.

Two landraiders at 1500 points is a challenge for any enemy, but be careful, because if they both pop, you're trouble.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:Well, I'm not from New Zealand, but I'll give some advice anyway.

Firstly, I think its quite risky to have only two troops at 1500 points. Most people follow the 1 troop choice per 500 points rule of thumb. I think you could scrap the dreadnought, who is the slowest on the field and get a third troops choice. Scouts or some marines.

Your vet command squad is very expensive, but I guess that's fine. You could probably augment their survivability even more by taking an apothecary.

Two landraiders at 1500 points is a challenge for any enemy, but be careful, because if they both pop, you're trouble.

The apothecary is in the command squad for free.

2 Land Raiders with no "filling" is a waste of valuable transport space. I usually run terminators in my LR so that they can get to the enemy. You should put the Command Squad+Cap in the second LR, they can assault out of it.

I run (or have run, haven't done so recently) a duel Land Raider list, both with 5 TH/SS Terminators inside.
I think if your using the Land Raiders, you need a unit with huge CC punch and decent survivability once they get out (unless they managed to kill there + Land Raiders point cost of opponents) A command squad could manage that, but Assault Terminators i think are a much better bet.

Hmm, I'll tell you this, your is very small. Too small in my opinion.

Yes, you have few killpoints, but that's all you've got going for you. Two landraiders, neither with Assault Termies in them, are easy to pop with meltas, and they're not going to do much damage on their own. You're essentially wasting the points for the Assault Ramp special rule by not making use of it. The reason assault termies work well in LRs is because, you can pop them in melta range, but whatever you pop them with will be eaten alive next turn. This gives you a defence against one major landraider weakness.

Think about the number of models you're putting on the table, and the number of squads they're in. Lots of cheap troops (especially when you can combat squad them into smaller squads for objective games) tend to work better because you have tactical flexibility. Need to Contest 3 objectives, or keep the opponent guessing, you can do that. It also means you simply shoot more enemy squads per turn. If you have 7 units in your army you can shoot 7 different enemy units each turn. It's terrible to have to waste a whole squads bolter fire simply to kill that one SM scout in with the missile launcher who didn't die with the rest of his squad. Having lots of small cheap troops gives you that flexibility.

Also, you've got a nice little CC squad with your vets and captain, but they could be in an assault vehicle rather than a non assault one, that'd be better for them!
Still, I don't own Codex SM, so I don't know if you can achieve a similar style squad with Assault Termies with Storm Shields for the same price or cheaper. If they're the same price as BA termies, you can have 5 SS&TH termies for 225. That's a 2+ save and a 3++ and strength 8. Admittedly, they don't strike at initiative or with as many attacks, so it's really up to you.

Also, captains. Personally, I don't see the problem, but a lot of people don't like them. He is quite expensive for what he adds to your army, but then he's probably pretty cool looking . Have you thought about a librarian or chaplain instead? A libby can bring Null Zone to the field (which really sways the balance against lots of elite units) an a chappy gives you rerolls to hit when you charge, which is always lovely.
I'm not sure, but I think you have to take a captain to take a command squad? right?

Anyhow, that sounds like I've torn into your list, but I'm more trying to make you think about your lists potential tweaks to make it better!

Overall, I'd just say, consider the advantages of having many small, cheap squads. Consider if you're wasting points or special rules anywhere. Consider exactly what your units are for, if there is redundancy (which is a good thing) and are they equipped for the job.

I'd mess about the the command squad - give a couple of them plasma pistols so that you can pop the odd light tank if you get really stuck, also put them in a Land Raider as they can assault from it. Also can help wound allocation.

The half of the 10man tac w/MM doens't have range- give it a missile launcher and camp it on a home objective. It may be worth mixing it up (melta and combi-plasma and plasma and combi-melta) so that you always have a chance of an answer

Dread - TL autocannons are generally better than a lascannon (more shots = more hits = more damage) at supressing armor. The dread is also a bit slow too. You also have very few bodies - 26 plus 4 vehicles
isn't a lot!

Thanks for the advice everyone, and from it I have concluded that I shall switch my dread out for some more troops and chuck my command squad in the LR [ps I just assumed everyone would know I had an apothecary but yeah hes in there too.] question is tohugh, what should i buy with the extra 170-ish points?

Attack bike or land speed squadron with multi meltas!

lunarman wrote:Attack bike or land speed squadron with multi meltas!

QFT

Land speeders with the extra points IMHO. I personally don't run them, but I've seen them be very effective with melta spam.

I'm going to go out on a limb though and say dump at least one of the land raiders and the razorback. Since you don't have anything to put in one land raider its more-or-less a waste of points.

I know a lot of people have said lose the dread, but I absolutely love them. Keep them cheap with a CCW and MM and put 'em in a drop-pod for super shenanigans when you plop them in front of a vehicle between it and your army. Very effective. So (ya I'm going FAR out on that limb) use the points you get from dropping a land raider to buy another dreadnought and a drop-pod for each. Find somewhere else to put a drop-pod and you can have both of the dreads come in on turn one.

I'm not sure what your point spread will look like after dropping the LR and razorback and adding 3 drop-pods and a dread (I know each dread + drop-pod will be 140 pts), but try to keep your troops mobile also seeing as you have so few.

At the very least I'd say drop the LR, put the command squad in the other one, and put a combat squad in the razorback. Stay mobile and keep out of CC for the most part.

@-Cypher- thanks for the advice, but I still like the thought of having 2 massive hulks of cover fire [and just plain cover for that matter], but yes, 500 pts could be used elsewhere, but in saying that, 2 land raiders could probably work very effectively [provided the don't get destroyed before i get to fire on the enemy, then i'll be in trouble :| - but this is why it could be risky.]

Remember that Crusaders are great assault dumpers. Why waste using it to haul shooty marines around? Drop the Command squad, give the Lazerback to one of the tactical squads, and put some assault terminators in the Crusader.

@SoloFalcon1138 sounds like an allright plan, but the only assault termies I have are loaded out with three LCs and two THs. would that be ok? i've got a normal shooty squad with an assault cannon. should I run both? Im not too sure if they'd work because they're not too good against tanks, are they? unless I got 2 crusaders... |^:?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have all the components except for the land raiders at the moment. It'll be quite a long time until I get them too sadly. [CHRISTMASSSSS ] but, in the meantime I suppose i could go with a more, Infantry concentrated list? I'm thinking 3 tac squads, some scouts, 2 dreads and a pred? [ill work my way around it, tell me what you think.]


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I may also slip a dev squad in too.
Gotta love those MLs! :L

I suggest, "if" you are going to take the dread with the lascannon, give him a rocket launcher instead of a close combat weapon. Reason is, you either want dreads to be melee buffs or long range fire surrport and take attention and presure off other sqauds. If you are going to run them up with your land raiders take close range like assault cannon or multi-melta. i wouldn't make him a melee buff because land raiders are going to speed accross the map, the dread wont keep up with them.

Devastators aren't worth their points IMHO. Defiantly pick up some Sternguard. They are invaluable. Put the dreads in drop-pods with CCWs and MMs and put the Sterns in a drop-pod too. Give the Sterns some Combi-Meltas, and the Tac Squads LCs.

All of this is IMHO, and what I have found to be pretty good from experience.

I see. I think I might run a sternguard squad with 2 combi meltas, and 2 dreads with lascannons and rocket launchers [and maybe squeeze in some termies somewhere.]


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok guys, here's a revamp of my first list.

HQ-

Captain w/ Relic Blade and SS & Artificer Armour...................................................160
Command Squad:4 vets w/ PW and SS & Apothecary............................................235
in Razorback w/ TL HBs.....................................................................................040

.....................................................................................................................435


TROOPS

10 MAN TAC squad w/ Plasma Cannon & Plasma Gun [sgt has Combi Plasma & PF] ....220
10 MAN TAC squad w/ Multi-Melta & Melta Gun [sgt has Combi Melta & PF] .............210
05 MAN SCOUT squad w/ HB sgt has CC weapon and BP in razorback w/ TL HBs.......125

.....................................................................................................................555
ELITES

DREADNOUGHT w/ lascannon and missile launcher.................................................145
5 MAN STERN SQUAD w/ 2 combi-meltas & PF in drop pod w/ locator beacon? [what does it do? im new].205

..................................................................................................350

HEAVY SUPPORT

5 MAN DEVASTATOR SQUAD w 4 MLs................................................................150

TOTAL...........................................................................................................1490



Ok guys. The plan is to run the command squad up and shred infantry and sort of "suck up" the damage, whilst the melta tac squad
runs towards the tanks to pop them. the plasma squad is for dealing with infantry and the scouts are for objectives. I'll drop the
sternguards into places with cover or to back up the command squad from a flank. Meanwhile the devs and the dread sit back and
destroy everything . Now my only concern with this list is i'm lacking armour. 2 razorbacks, a dread and that's all. Also I have
an extrta 10 points I could spend. I could switch the drop pods locator beacon (I need to know what that does, sorry for sounding
novice, but...im novice!) for a deathwind launcher which would total 1500 points. So what do you think guys? Yea i've gotten rid of
the land raiders. I could put the command squad in a crusader, but i'd need to drop 250-ish points elsewhere :\

Have you played any actual games? I'm not sure what exactly you're shooting for, but vanilla marines shouldn't really be running AT anything if it isn't Tau or Guard. They don't do many wounds in CC (they survive well enough, but killing things in CC isn't their strong suit). At least not unless their a CC kitted squad.

That being said weapons with long ranges are good. Also, keep the dreads cheap and use them as dreadacides. Drop them between their target and your army (keeping in mind that you want to be at least 12 inches from any table edge) and use them to soak up damage/do as much damage as they can before they get popped.

You have the right idea with the Sterns. Don't take any special weapons on them that replace their bolters because their special ammo is the only reason they're worth their points. Most of the time you'll be shooting the ignores cover rounds or the poison rounds with the occasional other type that would negate an armor save or the like.

Here is what I would do for 1500 pts:

1497 pts:

HQ:
Master of the Forge + Conversion Beamer - 120

Elite:
Dreadnought with CCW and MM - 105
Dreadnought with CCW and MM - 105
5 Sternguard + 5 Combi-Meltas - 150

Drop-Pod - 35
Drop-Pod - 35
Drop-Pod - 35

Troops:
10 Tac Squad with Flamer + LC - 175
10 Tac Squad with Flamer + LC - 175
5 Scouts + 5 Camo Cloaks + ML - 100

Rhino - 35
Rhino - 35

Heavy Support:
Predator with AC + HB Sponsons - 85
Predator with AC + HB Sponsons - 85
7 Devastators + 2 LCs + 2 MLs - 222

It lacks Fast Attack, but with marines you generally won't need to swiftly run around the battlefield. Just use the Devs as an anchor in bolstered defences (from the MoTF) with the preds on each flank. Drop the scouts on an objective and either use their CCs to give 'em a nice save, or have 'em go to ground to stay alive and keep the objective until the rest of the army catches up. Drop the Dreads down to pop valuable targets; the Sterns will probably come in around turn 3 which is good. The battle will have fleshed out by then, and you can put them where you want them.

This list is all IMHO. Feel free to mull it over, change it, or chuck it.

BTW: Locator beacons just mean that any deepstriking unit can come in within 6 inches of the pod and not scatter.

I could try to run something similar, the only problem is that list would take me a long time to get [financial issues you see.] I'm trying to make a list with some of the stuff I have already. If any of you guys want to know what I have, so you could try to compile a decent list or just for knowledge, here's what i've got.

Captain w/ PW and PP
Captain w/ Storm Bolter and PW
Captain w/ Relic Blade and SS
Command squad all with PWs and SSs [+apothecarhy]
Command squad w/ Company champ, standard bearer, +Plasma gun

10 scouts [unassembled]
10 marines [unassembled]
10 marines w/ BP and PW, Plasma gun + flamer
10 marines w/ Combi Plasma, Plasma gun + Plasma cannon
10 marines w/ Combi Melta, meltagun + MM

2 Rhinos

1 5 man CC termie squad [3 LCs and 2 THs]
1 5 man termie squad [1 chainfist and assault cannon]
1 5 man sternguard squad [w/ 2 combi meltas - what should i give the sgt? I kitbashed some out of plastic you see.]
1 Dreadnought [with everything from box, Assault Cannon, LC, CC weapon, ML]
1 ironclad dread [with everything]

10 man assault squad w/ 2 flamers, PP and PF
5 man kitbashed vanguard vet squad w/ all BPs and PWs [1 PP]
1 land speeder with assault cannon and HB

1 pred with autocannon or TL LCs, HB sponsons
Devastators [any Heavy weapons can be used, 1 MM, 4 MLs 2 of everything else]

Give me some advice guys! D:

just a little "show off" of some of the lads I own

NZ FTW!

I used the same LRs as you in a friendly(-ish) tournament yesterday and the were BRILLIANT! my reg just stayed back and shot enemy Armour and took objectives in seize ground while my crusader moved 6" and fired everything (incl MM) and the assault cannon R*PED EVERYTHING i had a 2 scout squads and 1 tac squad w/Libby and Sternguard drawing most of the fire w/ gate of infinity
killed MEQ and Necrons but not so much daemons

So it's effective?
I wanna use it, but I need to buy land raiders D:

What Kind of list do you guys think I could make with

Captain w/ PW and PP
Captain w/ Storm Bolter and PW
Captain w/ Relic Blade and SS
Command squad all with PWs and SSs [+apothecarhy]
Command squad w/ Company champ, standard bearer, +Plasma gun

10 scouts [unassembled]
10 marines [unassembled]
10 marines w/ BP and PW, Plasma gun + flamer
10 marines w/ Combi Plasma, Plasma gun + Plasma cannon
10 marines w/ Combi Melta, meltagun + MM

2 Rhinos

1 5 man CC termie squad [3 LCs and 2 THs]
1 5 man termie squad [1 chainfist and assault cannon]
1 5 man sternguard squad [w/ 2 combi meltas - what should i give the sgt? I kitbashed some out of plastic you see.]
1 Dreadnought [with everything from box, Assault Cannon, LC, CC weapon, ML]
1 ironclad dread [with everything]

10 man assault squad w/ 2 flamers, PP and PF
5 man kitbashed vanguard vet squad w/ all BPs and PWs [1 PP]
1 land speeder with assault cannon and HB

1 pred with autocannon or TL LCs, HB sponsons
Devastators [any Heavy weapons can be used, 1 MM, 4 MLs 2 of everything else]?

Give me some advice guys! D:

Do you have the Land Raiders? There not listed in your list (Unless i can't read)

if you want to use two Land Raiders, have a Command squad in one, and Terminator Assault squad in the other. Stick a captain (i like the one with Relic Blade and SS) in with the command squad probably. Maybe try and fit 20 Marines in, i like Melta gun/MM squads, try and make your unassembled squad like that maybe (it will keep your whole army a close range army, which might work better) That might be nearly your whole list, i would try to then fit in either a Pred or a Dread.

I see, thanks.
Yeah that's the gay thing, I don't have the land raiders. :|
but I want to try the list. But if I wanted to use this list, then i'm certain that your suggestions would be the way to go. Not much else I can do until I can get those raiders though unfortunately. I suppose i'll have to wait until Christmas or something :\
I guess I could try some smaller games using some of the stuff I already own. Any suggestions lads?

Lipsdapips