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Konrad could see the Future. Did he know the dark secrets of the lost legions and what befell them> (Yeah I know they were supposed to be Player made.) Was he one of the monsters, along with Russ, to hunt down and kill the wayward Primarchs. "I know what you intend for me" takes on a sinister meaning, if he would be ordered to kill a brother. Was his death just to show the world that the Emperor was willing and had already ordered some of his sons killed, and then tried to cover it up. Thoughts?

What happened to the lost Primarchs doesn't seem to be a secret to the Primarchs themselves. Dorn and Malcador know. Seems to be one of the rare instances were we know less about the background than the characters within it.

I mean did he know before they were killed. He knew his father would kill his brothers?

I believe that all of the primarchs were briefed on the fates of the lost legions, whether it happened before or after they were recovered.

Night Haunter was almost certainly referring to his own fate, which he had already forseen in his visions. He certainly never liked his brethren enough to care whether he was ordered to kill them or not. In fact, he would have enjoyed the opportunity to take down those self-righteous, hypocritical bastards (Kurze's viewpoint, not mine). He liked the traitor primarchs even less- he sided with them out of a desire to see the Emperor punished for his hypocrisy rather than out of brotherly solidarity.

Night Haunter was a monster, but his function in the Emperor's plan wasn't Astartes-killing, it was inspiring submission and compliance in human populations through terror. If he did help destroy the lost two legions, he probably enjoyed the challenge.

Truthfully, the assassin sent to kill him seems just as likely to have been Kor Phaeron's work, intended to create another ally for Horus.

Without control over these visions, how should he know "just in time" . ?
The night haunter was haunted by his own mind. Can you trust yourself if all you see is bordering insanity?

I think he became what he was fighting his whole life and thats way he let himself get killed.

Exopheric wrote:

Truthfully, the assassin sent to kill him seems just as likely to have been Kor Phaeron's work, intended to create another ally for Horus.

Where is this from? I've never heard this theory before.
Is this actually stated somewhere or are you just guessing?

Exopheric wrote:
Truthfully, the assassin sent to kill him seems just as likely to have been Kor Phaeron's work, intended to create another ally for Horus.

This seems awfully unlikely to me, the Assassin clades were the staunchest supporters of the Emperor. I know you could argue that so were the Space Marines and Primarchs, but the clades were the silent hand of the Emperor. Their loyalty is only to the Emperor, not to a Primarch or anyone else. If they couldn't be trusted then they wouldn't have been sent on missions of that nature.

The Night Haunter had already turned his back on the Emperor and was on the run after asploding Nostramo before the heresy broke out.

It's one of the things that I've questioned about the Istvaan incident.

Then why didn't the Big E send Russ, isn't that his job?

sexiest_hero wrote:Then why didn't the Big E send Russ, isn't that his job?

To Istvaan? Because Horus put them on the other side of the galaxy.

"The Night Haunter had already turned his back on the Emperor and was on the run after asploding Nostramo before the heresy broke out."

Russ should have been released then.

sexiest_hero wrote:"The Night Haunter had already turned his back on the Emperor and was on the run after asploding Nostramo before the heresy broke out."

Russ should have been released then.

From the point of the view on the Heresy series then yeah, I guess he should have been. But that was one of the reasons why the Assassins had been sent after Night Haunter.

From the IA article

Appalled by his son's grotesque acts, the Emperor was forced by repeated protests to call Night Haunter to account, demanding his presence for a full inquiry into his Legions' methods. But as the edict was issued, and the slow but powerful arm of Imperial law stretched out to Night Haunter, the greatest betrayal the Imperium had ever seen came to terrible fruition. Horus, first among the Emperor's chosen, betrayed him by converting several of the Space Marine Legions to the worship of Chaos. The true extent of his treachery became evident to the Emperor at Istvaan V, and the quest to bring the Night Lords to justice was abandone as the Imperium tore itself apart in all-out war.

Night Haunter was aware of the fact that the Emperor had finally issued the order for his life to be terminated at the hands of the Callidus temple of assassins. Fully half of the existing Callidus operatives were dispatched to locate and destroy the Primarch, hoping his death would disband the Night Lords forever.

Some of the bits in the Heresy series haven't made a lot of sense, despite being good. The Night Lords being part of the 'Loyalist' force on Istvaan is one of them for me.

Pilau Rice wrote:
Some of the bits in the Heresy series haven't made a lot of sense, despite being good. The Night Lords being part of the 'Loyalist' force on Istvaan is one of them for me.

The Heresy series did not invent the Night Lords renegade status prior to Istvaan. It also did not invent their placement in the Loyalist forces.

Those things were both determined long before the Heresy series.

No adequate explanation for why the Night Lords were still part of the Loyalist forces has ever been given.

I know why, The Emperor was lying and covering things up jus like the night haunter said. :p

I don't believe it was even the Emperor who ordered the 'other legions' to the Istvaan systerm. I think the Emperor was to busy with his Web Way project to really understand what was going on in the greater galaxy.

He trusted Horus without question, Horus was his greatest Son and Warrior or he wouldn't of been named Warmaster. It was probley Malcador who was 'running' the show while the Emperor was doing his Web Way project. Astro-telepathy was notoriously unreliable around this time. Navagators where having problems with warp travel thanks to the Chaos gods. Rumours of The Haunters 'atrosities' and unstability where just starting to surface along with some proof ie Dorn, but the news of Horus overtook those rumours and just as in real life you have to use what forces you have avalable.

The master stroke was that Horus was Warmaster and has already anticipated the responce from Terra and set it up so that 3 of the Legions would be massacared by the supposed other 4 'loyal' legions. Think about it, you have the Haunter who's pulling a BatMan on the Galaxy, Perturabo who isn't going to win any 'Mr Congieniality' awards, Lorgar who you humiliated all those years ago and Alpharus/Omegon who you really don't know and has learned almost everything he knows about the Imperium from Horus.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:
Some of the bits in the Heresy series haven't made a lot of sense, despite being good. The Night Lords being part of the 'Loyalist' force on Istvaan is one of them for me.

The Heresy series did not invent the Night Lords renegade status prior to Istvaan. It also did not invent their placement in the Loyalist forces.

Those things were both determined long before the Heresy series.

No adequate explanation for why the Night Lords were still part of the Loyalist forces has ever been given.

That is not entirely correct.

Ferrus was able to contact the Night Lords and asked them to join the 'loyalist' attack on the Warmaster. This is the part that doesn't make sense to me. How he would have been able to contact the Night Lords and why, after his father had called them into account for their actions, would they suddenly join to protect the Imperium seems unlikely. The previous fluff doesn't even appear to have them at Istvaan, but it was after this that the Night Lords joined Horus.

DarknessEternal wrote:

sexiest_hero wrote:Then why didn't the Big E send Russ, isn't that his job?

To Istvaan? Because Horus put them on the other side of the galaxy.

Russ was too busy ruining Magnus' day to deal with Curze, but you know he was on the chores list I'm sure haha

Also, I forgot to add this, but chances are calling the Night Lords to Istvaan was meant to be using one problem to solve another. Horus and Curze could destroy each others forces, then the Emperor has less to worry about. Also, it could have been a way to have Curze redeem himself, from the Emperor's point of view. Also, the Emperor could use the savage brutality of the Night Lords to do some serious damage to the renegades.

So calling on a rogue Legion that is on the run was a good idea?

Really, when you are not sure of where who's loyalties lie trusting the Night Lords seems to be a very stupid thing to do. It's on par with Ferrus trusting Lorgar after Fulgrim has said that the Word Bearers are with Horus.

You could argue, why believe Fulgrim I guess.

Just my opinions of course

What does not make sense to me is that the initial fluff on the emperor states that he in life had control over manifestations of daemons and did not allow them to materialise in the real world. if thats the case why would something as casual as a warpstorm even hinder him in the slightest when plotting shipping lanes for his primarchs?