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Hey guys. I have an Island of Blood set, a battleforce set and 20 clan rats, also picked up and just put together a hellpit abom. So I have around 100 rats (slaves/clanrats) 2 wepaon teams, a hellpit. Im wondering how I should expand now. Im contemplating either getting a screaming bell or either another hellpit or warp lightning canon. Thoughts? Thanks!

WLC and some more rats you need like 150+/-

How should I run my slave or clanrats in formation though. 5 wide X deep? Or horde 10 across X deep

5 wide X deep, clan rats and slaves are pretty much there to tarpit unit, by going 5 wide and say 8-10 deep we have a smaller frontage so we take less attacks and we'll stick around longer through the rank leadership bonus and steadfast. Leave the damage to the weapon teams, hellpit, ogres, spells and warp lightening cannons, and best off we can shoot units that are in combat with out slaves so go nuts.

Wait, I thought you only get steadfast if your in horde formation. If i was just 5 wide and say 10 deep, sure id start off with like Ld 10 but thenid surely loose it after a couple rounds of combat.

My first suggestion would be either a battalion box or another IoB set.

Scratch that, my actual first suggestion is the WLC as it's the killiest 90 points you'll ever field. Yes, killiest. Heck, get two if you want.

Anyway, to my original point.

Another IoB set would give you 2 more weapon teams (including a second Mortar that you can't get in a blister or anything), more Rat Ogres and more clan rats. You can use the clan rats to bulk out your existing units, bringing you up to a good round 3 units of 30 each with command. Best part is you already have a way to differentiate units based on the shape of the shield! The spare 20 clan rats you have can be the start of a slave unit, but I find that the new regiments aren't "slavey" enough as a whole. Certain models are to be sure (like the rat with ankle chains on!) but I'd check eBay for some of the old so-called "rat-monkey" skaven. If you look at the current Nightrunner box, you'll see what I mean about their shape. If you want you can get some boxes of other armies to use as slaves also. I'm told Empire Flagellants are a good kit to use as most already look dirty and starved enough. IoB also gives you a few extra heroes to use in conversions if you like; frankly I think it has the best looking Warlock Engineer model currently available. Wouldn't go above two sets though.


If you get the battalion box, you get a bunch more clan rats that you can use to fill out your existing units. You get two more Rat Ogres to use. The Giant Rats that come with the set are sorta "meh" at first, mostly because you lack numbers; you can fill this out by purchasing some extra 20mm bases and using some of the rats from the Plague Monk sprues (that would normally be simply decorative). I'm told small units make for cheap war machine hunters, but I really want to field a huge horde of them considering they always get the extra rank of attacks (even on the charge! ). You also get 20 Plague Monks. Grab another box of those down the road and you have the makings of Furnace Pushers! I haven't tried Monks yet (mine are still in pieces :( ) but I'm told they're tough and with three attacks each can dish out some hurt.

And yeah, you generally want to run 5 wide, 8-10 deep. You get steadfast as long as you have more ranks than your opponent. At 2 points per model slaves generally have more ranks than most enemy blocks, even if you will end up removing handfuls of models at a time. I tend to run my clan rats (who are obviously a bit tougher than slaves as they actually have armor) in units of 30, mostly to bunker my characters and provide for weapons teams.

But seriously, Warp Lightning Cannon...

To be steadfast, you merely need more ranks than your opponent.

Anyway, I'm not a big fan of the monks and furnace, but since you already have 20 of them, grab another box and the furnace for a decent close combat unit.

Stormvermin are always great.

I vote for:

1) WLC: Awesome! Get one immediately! Cool figure too

2) More clanrats boxes! ...To use for slaves, you cant have TOO many!) Id run something like 2x40 clanrats, with hand weapon+shield, with weapon teams, and 3-5 units of 40-50 slaves.

3) 20 more monks + furnace

4) WLC again

I run all skaven units 5 wide and 8-10 deep. Except monks with furnace mostly 7 wide, 8 deep, including the furnace.

Hmm this is interesting I always thought that having you had to have slaves in horde formation. I also thought that the plague furnace lost its puzzah due to how chariots changed in 8th. Is it still mad crazy? I like the screaming bell more because I love the grey seer. I will buy a WLC when I head out again. And maybe another island of blood.


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Also are clan rats decent against the average elf or human?

Clan rats are generally on par with goblins, their points reflect this. I also don't think the plague furnace was ever considered a chariot, I would consider it more a pushable war machine, think a huge battering ram that fumes noxious gas. It hits like a truck but it's not considered to be as cheesy as a hell pit or WLC. Also make sure you use the large rats on the plague monk sprues as giant rats, just pick up some square bases for them. You are probably safe buying 2 IoB sets but you can also get just the rats on the trade forums here or ebay fairly cheap too.

So how do I equip slaves and clan rats respectively.

Slaves are real easy to equip. Shields, musician, done. 102 points for 50 rats that have a ward save in melee. Clanrats get shields and usually full command. Weapon team is a mortar, or a ratling gun if I'm feeling gnarly. I ended up with three sets of IoB, it's a great deal for the rats which are often sold by themselves for $20 on ebay.

As for the furnace, it has some issues in 8th edition. It was always vulnerable to shooting, and now it is more so with both rank-n-file and warmachine shooting being more powerful. It used to rely on killing the front rank between the priest's I5 attacks/impact/fog and then following up with 20 S3 I3 attacks and the wrecker. Now with step up, the priest and furnace will be taking attacks back. What's more, they will also be getting attacked by at least 1 supporting rank of models. Basically, I would strongly recommend a potion of toughness for him. I've also noticed 8th edition has people using more terrain, and a furnace entering terrain is having a bad time (D6 automatic S6 hits sucks). It's not exactly a chariot, so at least it doesn't have to take dangerous terrain checks. Finally, in my opinion Plague Monks compare poorly to Stormvermin with both costing 7 points. I'll gladly give up frenzy, an extra hand weapon and toughness for +1 WS, +1S, +2I(!) and heavy armor. And I get the option of taking weapons team and sticking a BSB in there.

That said, it can still be a very fun and devastating piece. In casual games, I like to take a horde with the banner of the under empire. You could very well enter combat with 2D6 automatic S2 hits, D6 automatic S5 impact hits, D6 toughness checks from the fog, 4 S6 I5 flail attacks from the priest, 28 S3 I3 attacks from the monks, and finally an artillery dice worth of automatic S5 hits.

102 points is for 50 slaves + musician, WITHOUT shields though.
127 pts with shields it is.
I would prefer them wihtout any upgrades. Just as cheap as possible. I use 4x50 slaves w/ musician and champion (106 pts each).

Shields are fine though as well, and if you are going to use IoB clanrats for slaves, these come with the shields of course.

I think the furnace is still plenty good! I use the Bell as well. (well +HPA, 1 Wheel and 2x WLC, but thats at 3K)

HMM Do I run clannrats in blocks of 40 in horde or Like streamdragon said I think, blocks of 3?

Why horde? With slaves and clan rats, you want your frontage as small as possible and your ranks as deep as they can go.

oh.. So maybe blocks of 30, 5 wide 6 deeps?

Depends what you want to do. Slaves should be big blocks of 50+. Clanrats I field in 30-rat units only if their role is to just push the bell or babysit a BSB or something. If you're planning on throwing them into combat, take 40-50 (or just slaves instead).

May i ask some advice for my skaven in this thread? There are so many skaven thread atm i feel bad to make a new one >.<

I was wondering whats the best Rare choice minus Abom?

I kept reading WLC are very good ( because its cheap ) but is it effective as well?

How about Plague Catapult? I have never fielded artillery before , is it over kill to have these if i have plague mortars?

And DoomWheel , i have no idea how they fare , but a mouse army cant NOT have the hamster wheels right?! So please teach me how to use these xD

Thanks!

I honestly think that the Plaugeclaw is the better of the two (out of WLC and Itselft) Due to it being a bit more reliable and can take out a MASSIVE chunk of knights or the such like.

Sure its only s2, but if you wound, you kill.

There are lots of big beasties in the new WFB, and there will be more this summer. With cannons being as accurate as snipers and the WLC having a large template, it is the superior artillery piece. That said, given their cost, nothing is stopping you from taking both.

WLC has the smal template though!

Buts its still terrific, avg. str of 6, doesnt allow armour saves, d6 wounds per hit... Nothing to not like.

The catapult can be awesome vs. big blocks of t3 infantry especially.. (like huge units of elves )

And Wither is a good spell to use before a PCC hit if possible.

Hrm, not sure where I got the template thing from, boy my opponents will be happy. Still, for blasting monsters accept no substitute, because we have nothing else to really deal with them short of rat ogres I guess (I've found other big beasties tend to eat my hellpits, I prefer to rush them into flanks of infantry blocks).

Catapult is great fun, but again, you can always take both and we have plague wind mortars as well