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Grotz are often overlooked by orkplayers as weedy little thing that get smooshed easyhowever these little guys are dimonds in the rough cheap little things 3 points each better bs then your avarage boy
and they can claim objectives while your opponent ignors them to focus on the larger boyz footsloggin there way towards them i have taken to feilding 2 units of 20 in all my games as i seem to have some remarkable crack shotting grots in there and have sofar only lost 1 whole unit in over 30 games due largely to people focusing on the "bigger" picture and small size

this is a example of there amazingness
just got back from visiting a friend who had told me he was haveing a big 40k game and wanted me to come over and be 4th player so rock over and heres how it all played out
orks(me) tau(my friend) and marines and demons(2 random guys my friend knows)
my army list was as follows
hq
grazahkul thraka and a weirdboy(named him bob)

troops
4x units of 30 boyz (nobs with powerclaw and boss polls)
2x units of 20 gretchin(runtherders with grotprodz)

heavy support
battlewagon( all the trimings killcannon deffrolla zzapgun and 4x big shootas)
unit of 3 killa kans (2 with missles 1 with grotzooka)


got in a practice game then on to the main event
played out fairly well
bob graza and one of the units of 30 boyz got off with bobs ear we go ziping them straight into my friends and raider and marines were they stayed for the rest of the game haveing fun
the other boyz ran off to go play with the demons which were close at hand with the cans and i set my grots off to go claim objectives guarded by bessy my lovely battlewagon
amazingly after the game we found that while graza bob and their boyz had been single handedly krumping marines my grotz had held their respective objectives the whole game and reaped a huge kill count 1 unit got 35 kills!!outshoting some tau firewarriors who got too close the other got 20! nailing a obnoctious unit of bloodletters and some demonettes and only lost 1 grot the entier game


all in all grots are good dont overlook these small little guys they need love 2

I love grots... but I'm going to say that BS3 isn't too great on a unit that only has 12" S3 weapon. So what if they get a couple more hits? The strength and range is so low that it easily makes them weaker than the other options, especially when compared to shoota boys.

Also, they are incapable of winning close combat. There real purpose is just claiming objectives and being fairly resilient against shooting, with large number of bodies and re-rollable morale checks. If they were stubborn they would be really really good, but as is now they are only resilient against shooting.

If you are taking grots, you are essentially saying to your opponent that you are willing to play with 67 points less in your army so that you can have the option to advance with all of your real scoring units in an objective game. Lots of players would rather have 67 points of stuff that can actually contribute to killing the enemy. I mean, 1/3 of the time, when you play kill points, they are a big disadvantage... and the other 2/3 of the time their advantage is of debatable value.

-Myst

Grots are fun. I like them since if you have things running straight at someone's line they are probably going to shoot them and leave the weedy little grots alone. Then they can sit in the back field picking their nose or whatever they do. They do die really fast if they dont have cover though, so if there isn't a good place to hide them in your back field and there is anything running at them be it hive tyrant or a pack of bunnies they are going to explode into piles of grot paste.

I disagree with the grots not contributing. I have just started fielding them in my green tide lists and find they can be extrememly ANNOYING to the other player.

I use the grots as a screen in front of another screen of 'ard boyz with the Mad Dok. This is then followed by the mobz of slugga boyz behind. Long story short, my opponent has two options:
a. Shoot the boyz and let me take my cover saves.
b. Shoot the grots and not fire for a turn at my boyz.

Either way, I am getting a free turn or so of movement across the board before my boyz start taking fire.

The other benefit you fail to mention is that while I can assualt through my gretchin, my opponent cannot. (provided they have survived that far). Again, this gives another benefit as it almost always gives me the benefit of charging as opposed to getting charged.

Also, I have had small units of grots assault units just to tie them up. They actually killed a necron destroyer once. If used properly, they can be an effective means to tie up a unit. (Keep in mind those grabba sticks can take a walker's attacks down to 0 -- if you have 30+3 -- effectively neutralizing it for the game).

I also use my grots as moving shields for Lootas, Kannons, or a Big Mek w/SAG. They move an inch behind the shooty unit, wait for the shooty unit to fire, then they run back. (Unless the unit being shot already has an armor save better than cover).

Lastly, I usually only run units of 19+1 runtherds or 29+2, but never 20+2. Too many points.

Green is Best! wrote:Also, I have had small units of grots assault units just to tie them up. They actually killed a necron destroyer once. If used properly, they can be an effective means to tie up a unit. (Keep in mind those grabba sticks can take a walker's attacks down to 0 -- if you have 30+3 -- effectively neutralizing it for the game).

Incorrect the grabba stik jacks down attacks to a minimum of 1...you cant jack them down any farther...

I use grots to hold a back field objective for 40 pts (I usually only use 10 + herda)...so when I charge in Im still fighting with almost my entire army. If we roll for a KP game they sit in reserve for as long as possible and then kick it in some back out of the way corner in cover and pick thier noses...

My apologies. I wrote in haste re: grabba sticks. But you get the point.

I'm going to disagree with Myst on his "playing with 67 less points" opinion. In KP games, or other non-standard missions, i find my squad of grots can find their use by rushing them towards a walker or MC. sure they have little to no chance of doing any damage, but when they already have no armor save the powered attacks mean nothing, and have 20 wounds against a single model that only has 3 or 4 attacks means you can usually tie it up and effectively take it out the game for a short while (possibly multiple turns if you're really lucky with your morale rolls).

I love using my grots in all my games. There's nothing like the look on a SM player's face when you drop some termies with grot blastas. Also when playing dark eldar I will rush my opponents wyches and have a burna boy squad follow. Shoot the wyches up and they won't assault cause they know the burna boyz will cook them after they win the combat. I find it humorous when wyches have to tuck tail and run from grots.

They're cheap enough to be useful, either as a speedbump or objective holder or mobile cover etc. I'd take them in anything but a all-mobile speed freek army.

Just a darned shame the runtherder can't take a big shoota or rokkit like in the previous codex... :(

ork_smash wrote:I'm going to disagree with Myst on his "playing with 67 less points" opinion. In KP games, or other non-standard missions, i find my squad of grots can find their use by rushing them towards a walker or MC. sure they have little to no chance of doing any damage, but when they already have no armor save the powered attacks mean nothing, and have 20 wounds against a single model that only has 3 or 4 attacks means you can usually tie it up and effectively take it out the game for a short while (possibly multiple turns if you're really lucky with your morale rolls).

The only problem with this is that they have poor leadership and if they lose by even 2 models they are at serious risk of sweeping advance. Everything depends on the scenario of course, but giving up a kill point and playing with 10 less boyz doesn't seem like it is worth it to tie up a dread for 1-2 turns. I'd rather use them for mobile cover saves and assault blockers... if they get charged and wipde out, something close is ready to charge whatever just ate them.

Like I said... I really like Grots... I just think they aren't super competative and they definately don't contribute to the brute force killing that many Ork lists aer built upon. They take a little extra experience and immagination to see the value that they can provide, and that's why I think you don't see them more.

What I'd really like to see is the Big Guns and Grots get merged to a single choice. Like Eldar Guardians... I'd take more Big Guns with extra crew if they were scoring. I'd take more Grots if they had some shooting power. That doesn't seem to overpowered to me, but who knows.

-Myst

ork_smash wrote:I'm going to disagree with Myst on his "playing with 67 less points" opinion. In KP games, or other non-standard missions, i find my squad of grots can find their use by rushing them towards a walker or MC. sure they have little to no chance of doing any damage, but when they already have no armor save the powered attacks mean nothing, and have 20 wounds against a single model that only has 3 or 4 attacks means you can usually tie it up and effectively take it out the game for a short while (possibly multiple turns if you're really lucky with your morale rolls).

Either you not talking from experience or you are not playing by the rules. Grots don't have Mob Rules. The Squig hound only allows you to reroll a leadership check. At a 7 leadership you lose 2 models you need a 5 or less to not run... odds are not in your favor.

But a small squad are great to put in reserves and hope they stay off the board until needed to grab an objective.

ork_smash wrote: Grots don't have Mob Rules. The Squig hound only allows you to reroll a leadership check.

It says mob rule on runtherds, but until i read this i didnt realise it was per ORK.

WOW ive done a LOT of cheating recently LOL

Clang wrote:They're cheap enough to be useful, either as a speedbump or objective holder or mobile cover etc. I'd take them in anything but a all-mobile speed freek army.

Just a darned shame the runtherder can't take a big shoota or rokkit like in the previous codex... :(

NO, lol that would defeat the whole purpose of the unit, sneak then onto an objective and hope your opponent forgets about them.