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Hi all

As I'm a cripple I thought I'd write some more 'in depth' articles on some Charcters/Units. In this one I'll focus on what is fast becoming my favourite Ork character - Mad Dok Grotsnik (& his Painboy fellows). I realise through a search he has been discussed before but not at great depth.

Mad Dok Grotsnik

Statistics & Rules

Grotsnik is a 160pts HQ choice with reasonable stats & equipment:
WS 5 BS2 S4 T5 W3 I3 A4 LD9 Sv4+
Power Klaw, Urty Syringe (4+ poisoned CCW), Dok’s Tools (Feel No Pain to himself & the unit he joins) Cybork Body (5++ sv) & a Slugga.

He also has the rule ‘One Scalpel Short of a Medpack’ which gives the unit he is with Fearless and, essentially, Rage.

Da Big Dok: If taken any unit in the army may be given Cybork bodies for an additional 5 pts each.

In Game

The Doc himself is quite a fearsome fighter, able to use either his Power Klaw or ‘Urty Syringe. He’s tough as well. A 4+/5++ save and Feel No Pain at Toughness 5 means he can only be instant killed by Strength 10 weapons.

The most obvious use for the Dok is to put him into a unit of Meganobz or possibly Burna Boyz. He can give any unit a 5++ save for 5pts which will increase the survivability of any unit for an average of 50-75pts. This may, in itself, seem like a bad investment compared to the Mek’s Kustom Forcefield or the use of cover abundent in most games. I can’t see a sensible list giving every unit Cybork bodies but it may well be worth it on one or two key units you want to survive.

The most immediate choice for the Dok to both join and give Cybork bodies to is Meganobz, turning them into, essentially, the Ork version of Terminators w/Feel No Pain added. There’s little sense in using him within a standard Nobz unit who can take Painboyz at the fraction of the Dok’s cost.

If taken with a Warboss you can take a unit of Meganobz as Troops, add the Dok & you have a very tough scoring unit, on par (toughness wise) with Grey Knight Paladins. The Meganobz can also take kombi-skorchas making them versatile against horde units as well as hitting hard in combat.

The other possibility is including him with a Burna or ‘Ard Boy unit. Burnas are one of the best choices an Ork player can take. The chance to get 15 Str 4 AP 5 templates is just plain scary or else the chance to get 45 WS 4 Str 4 Power Weapon Attacks on the charge is just plain nasty, even at I 3. The Dok will give the Burna’s the durability they would otherwise not have, however a unit of 15 with Cybork bodies will cost a whopping 300pts. Perhaps Feel No Pain is enough?

The Ard’ Boyz will be effective enough without Cybork bodies, the addition of Feel No Pain meaning it will take some heavy firepower to shift them. Boyz shouldn't be overlooked as an option for the Dok either.

But isn’t Rage bad?

Ordinarily yes Rage is bad, but with Orks you want to get them into combat anyway and they have some of the best Transports in the game in Trukks & Battlewagons. So long as you don’t get caught in the open any unit the Dok is with will cause your opponent all sorts of troubles. The Ork FAQ stipulates that any transport the Dok is in MUST move as fast as possible towards the nearest enemy unit and must move into a position whereby he can assault as soon as possible. This is certainly not ideal within a Tournament environment where consistency/predictability is more favourable, but in friendly games is great fun.

This means that deployment is key with any unit the Dok is with, it also means your opponent may be able to manipulate the Dok’s movement and force them to engage whatever unit they wish (with Deep Striking etc). This may put a lot of people off the Dok, but if you treat him and his unit as a shock troop choice your opponent will basically have to choose a unit they want to sacrifice or else take a risk in order to stop him. Even TH/SS Terminators would be stupid to stand in the way of the Dok and a unit of 10 Burnaboyz on the charge.

Conclusion

The Dok is great fun and can make for some crazy lists. He has the ability to increase the survivabilty (thus the killing potential) of any unit you wish but is ultimately geared towards combat. He is an Independent Character but cannot leave the unit he is with until it is dead – ideally you’d like to position him in order to keep him alive for as long as possible. Even a humble Ork Boy with a 5++ sv & Feel No Pain is nothing to be sniffed at & will put the fear of Gork into any opponent. Put him into a Meganobz unit with Ghazghull or Old Zogwort & you will get what must surely be the Ork’s prime (& craziest) ‘Death Star’ unit.

What do you think of the Dok and would you/have you use/d him in a list? If so how would/do you use him?

Painboyz

Painboyz are, to me, essential within any Nob or Flash Git Mob as they gve both Feel No Pain and the chance to have Cybork Bodies, making any of these units tough as nails. Their Urty' Syringe isn't that bad either - really there's little to discuss. TAKE THEM!

I find that the dok with hard boyz is a good way to give your opponent to bad options:

1) They can waste shots on an extremely tough unit

or

2) They can fire at the less threatening unit who has a 4+ cover save.

I'm new to the game and I have only played against people new to the game, but I love Grotsnik. I have not faced anyone with the knowledge and ability to take advantage of his always pursue closest enemy rule but I have run him with 30 cybork boys with nob and PK and the unit is unfreakingbelievable. My first game I took down 2 5man Assault Squads back to back, then an Assault Terminator Squad 2 lightening claws and rest shield and hammer these were all master crafted as this unit also had Vulkan which was destroyed with the unit, the land raider transporting the unit was then destroyed, in the last turn of the game I took down 1/2 a terminator tactical squad and I still had the Mad Dok, the Nob and 10 other boyz left. I will always probably field this unit and try out 'ard boyz and naked boyz as well, I am thinking of ways to help counter the kiting of the unit by adding in Lootas, Kommandos and a Warphead with a unit of shoota boyz for a chance for deep striking to cut off a unit kiting him or Zzzaping down a tank or transport, rokkit buggies and koptas with saws might help and thinking Nob bikers with PKs as well.

warspawned wrote:

If taken with a Warboss you can take a unit of Meganobz as Troops, add the Dok & you have a very tough scoring unit, on par (toughness wise) with Grey Knight Paladins. The Meganobz can also take kombi-skorchas making them versatile for a turn of combat as they can use them once as Power Weapons giving them 4 Str 5 I 4 Attacks on the charge each at WS4 – that should be enough to take care of almost any unit they come across. Either that or they can burn their way through any horde unit.

The portion of this paragraph regarding kombi-skorchas is entirely untrue. kombi-skorchas =/= burnas, and as such cannot be used as a power weapon at initiative. they are essentially simply a combi-weapon heavy flamer. The only close combat weapon a meganob can ever use is the power klaw that is attached to his mega-armor. I would suggest revising for the sake of those not terribly familiar with the codex.

The rest of your post however, is very nicely written and I enjoyed reading, and I say keep them coming!

I am an ardent fan of Grotsnik attached to a unit of 'ard boyz. Since I run green tide, this usually means that it is a screen of 'ard boyz in front followed by 3 to 4 mobs of 30 more boyz. Kiting the Dok's unit around is very tough in this case as there is nowhere behind me to deepstrike / land as the board is literally covered in orky goodness. On spearhead, it does become a little bit easier, but such is life.

Most people are not used to boyz having an armor save. Couple that with feel no pain and you will give the unprepared player fits as it is NOT easy to knock off a unit of 31 boyz with 4+ FNP. Do the mathhammer backwards to figure out how many shots you need to wipe out this unit. Most lists simply do not have the firepower to do this quick enough. And, if they are concentrating their fire on the Dok and his boyz, that means there are 90 to 120 orks being left completely alone.

I have also combined the Dok and his 'ard boy retinue with Ol' Zogwort for some rather interesting combinations. My personal favorite is the when Zoggy gives all my boyz and extra attack and all of a sudden its 5 attacks on the charge. More orky goodness.

The portion of this paragraph regarding kombi-skorchas is entirely untrue. kombi-skorchas =/= burnas, and as such cannot be used as a power weapon at initiative. they are essentially simply a combi-weapon heavy flamer. The only close combat weapon a meganob can ever use is the power klaw that is attached to his mega-armor. I would suggest revising for the sake of those not terribly familiar with the codex.

That's embarrassing

You're correct Sir. What can I say? I can't believe I didn't notice the difference between the word 'burna' & 'skorcha' I really appreciate the encouragement though. I shall be more vigiliant in any future topics. Thanks

I have also combined the Dok and his 'ard boy retinue with Ol' Zogwort for some rather interesting combinations. My personal favorite is the when Zoggy gives all my boyz and extra attack and all of a sudden its 5 attacks on the charge. More orky goodness.

I also think Old Zogwort is a great & suitable combination for the Dok. The ability to turn anything into a squig has got to be worth it. Orks are all about fun & these guys are, to me, the the most fun-giving HQ's in the Ork Dex, if not the game.

warspawned wrote:

The portion of this paragraph regarding kombi-skorchas is entirely untrue. kombi-skorchas =/= burnas, and as such cannot be used as a power weapon at initiative. they are essentially simply a combi-weapon heavy flamer. The only close combat weapon a meganob can ever use is the power klaw that is attached to his mega-armor. I would suggest revising for the sake of those not terribly familiar with the codex.

That's embarrassing

You're correct Sir. What can I say? I can't believe I didn't notice the difference between the word 'burna' & 'skorcha' I really appreciate the encouragement though. I shall be more vigiliant in any future topics. Thanks

I have also combined the Dok and his 'ard boy retinue with Ol' Zogwort for some rather interesting combinations. My personal favorite is the when Zoggy gives all my boyz and extra attack and all of a sudden its 5 attacks on the charge. More orky goodness.

I also think Old Zogwort is a great & suitable combination for the Dok. The ability to turn anything into a squig has got to be worth it. Orks are all about fun & these guys are, to me, the the most fun-giving HQ's in the Ork Dex, if not the game.

Even though I have yet to use Mad Dok (he just doesn't have a home in my current playstyle), I also feel that a combination of the dok and Old Zoggie is without a doubt the epitome of Orky nonsense and hilarity, and if I had more boyz I would probably have great fun fielding a tide with the both of them. grotsnik is ALMOST as hurty and as durable as Ghaz, short of the turn he has a 2++ imo.

Yeah, Mad Dok with 30 'ard boyz is a juggernaught marching down the field.

Putting Zogwort in there makes him a little more durable once he has FNP to offset his 6+ save. Weirdboy powers aside, Zogwort is a pretty nasty little ork. 3 attacks on the charge PLUS d6 attacks at I5 that all wound on 2+.

When you put the two together, it is like chocolate and peanut butter.... NOT BAD!

The idea of running 30 boyz with FNP, 4+/5++ sounds like a good idea, but just did the math and considering you don't take a Nob, (since it will be led by the Dok instead), it will come out to 450pts for just the mob, 610 when you include Grotsnik.

So, awesome yes, expensive very. I'd only run this in 2k lists , anything less and I feel like it's investing too much into a squad, regardless of its durability.

Thoughts?

Penguinmasterofdoom wrote:The idea of running 30 boyz with FNP, 4+/5++ sounds like a good idea, but just did the math and considering you don't take a Nob, (since it will be led by the Dok instead), it will come out to 450pts for just the mob, 610 when you include Grotsnik.

So, awesome yes, expensive very. I'd only run this in 2k lists , anything less and I feel like it's investing too much into a squad, regardless of its durability.

Thoughts?

No need to give them the 5+ inv eally and that knocks the cost down to 300 for the squad

You're right & I wouldn't run him like that per-se in games of 1,750 or less.

I think a unit of 'Ard Boyz with Feel No Pain, even basic Boyz, will still give good value, especially if you put a screen of Grots in front. You don't have to give them Cybork Bodies. You'd just have to take care of Pie templates at Strength 8 or more, other than that they'd be very durable. If you're running a footslogger horde anyway then I think he's worth definite consideration, even if he only gives your Meganobz Cybork Bodies, 5pts each could help them out a lot & in 1,500-1,750 you'd be running, what? 5-8 max? Stick the Boyz in a Battlewagon & you'd increase their survivability further.

I like the fact that he hits almost as hard as an ordinary Warboss as well, with the option of going poisoned should you choose.

In Apocalypse you'd put him with The Green Tide - easy. 100 Boyz w/Feel No Pain

Penguinmasterofdoom wrote:The idea of running 30 boyz with FNP, 4+/5++ sounds like a good idea, but just did the math and considering you don't take a Nob

Nob is pretty much mandatory though you can skip the Boss Pole with the Mad Dok and his fearless.

I should point out now that in your article you got the stats of burnas wrong - its str4 ap5.

Penguinmasterofdoom wrote:The idea of running 30 boyz with FNP, 4+/5++ sounds like a good idea, but just did the math and considering you don't take a Nob, (since it will be led by the Dok instead), it will come out to 450pts for just the mob, 610 when you include Grotsnik.

So, awesome yes, expensive very. I'd only run this in 2k lists , anything less and I feel like it's investing too much into a squad, regardless of its durability.

Thoughts?

I don't take the cybork option, but I do take the Nob with a PK out of habit. It should come out to 335 for boyz and points. Adding in Grotsnik and yes, we are talking around 600 points.

Would I take this at a 1,000 point game? Of course not. But at 1,500 points it starts working out for me as I NEVER take any vehicles with this list. The strength of this list is that you are not giving your opponent high point targets for his expensive weapons. Also, keep in mind, this unit does not operate in a vacuum. It usually has a 107 point grot screen in front and 3-4 220 point mobz of 30 boyz each behind it. IMHO, you have to have a multitude of models behind the Dok's unit to keep your opponent from leading him around.

I don't want to get into the details of lists on this forum, but I have been having decent success with Mad Dok and Green Tide. I just started adding the grot screen in front. EIther my opponent gives me cover and shoots through the grots or wastes time killing the poor lil' gretchin. I back up this mob with a Big Mek and a SAG, and batteries of kannons and zzap guns (and the obviousl Lootas). Long story short is there is a grot screen, 'ard boys and Dok, more boyz, and usually 7 support by fire positions of S7 (zzap and SAG a bit random) or higher shots. As my opponent, what do you target first? The boyz barrelling down at you or the support positions in the back?

Few Ork players run Big Guns and people either ignore them or over commit resources to killing them (Oh yes, they are getting cover saves from the giant herd of orky goodness).

But back to the topic at hand, I am completely sold on this combo of Dok and 'ard boyz. Does his rules create drawbacks? Absolutely. And there are ways to work around it / mitigate its effects. It is most effective as a screen, giving cover saves to the boyz behind him.

While we're still on the topic of the good Dok, I've always had a wonder. Is there ever a point where would want to use his 'urty syringe instead of the power klaw? Considering he'd still only strike at I4 on the charge, and the fact that he's fairly durable anyway.

While we're still on the topic of the good Dok, I've always had a wonder. Is there ever a point where would want to use his 'urty syringe instead of the power klaw? Considering he'd still only strike at I4 on the charge, and the fact that he's fairly durable anyway.

Probably not come to think of it It may be useful for something if it ignored the effects of a power fist - should such a rule/unit ever exist, say, but not much else. You may consider it against a MC - but you'd proably prefer to take the chance with the high strength and ignore the Sv if you wanted to kill it...

ork_smash wrote:While we're still on the topic of the good Dok, I've always had a wonder. Is there ever a point where would want to use his 'urty syringe instead of the power klaw? Considering he'd still only strike at I4 on the charge, and the fact that he's fairly durable anyway.

Against anything with a poor armor save that is I3 or lower, which is... well, mostly other orks. Also note that he(unlike painboyz) has a slugga, so he get's an additional attack when using the 'urty syringe.
6 attacks wounding on 4+ with reroll is only marginally worse than 5 attack wounding at 2+ when the opponent's armor is 6+.

warspawned wrote:

While we're still on the topic of the good Dok, I've always had a wonder. Is there ever a point where would want to use his 'urty syringe instead of the power klaw? Considering he'd still only strike at I4 on the charge, and the fact that he's fairly durable anyway.

Probably not come to think of it It may be useful for something if it ignored the effects of a power fist - should such a rule/unit ever exist, say, but not much else. You may consider it against a MC - but you'd proably prefer to take the chance with the high strength and ignore the Sv if you wanted to kill it...

That's just it, I can't find it useful even against MC's. He's still wounding a T8 wraithlord on 4's (3's on the charge), and wouldn't benefit from a reroll for poison anyway, and as you said, the syringe wouldn't ignore armor. I mean sure he should have one cuz he is da dok, but i just don't see the point in-game.