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Hey my buddy is playing with the Orks and he has not even came close to beating me. I play BA's and Tyranids and I am 15-0-0! First off he will roll 75% of 1's & 2's. Next he does not listen to me on what he needs to get can you guys help me help him? Tell me how he should use them.

It would be much easier to help you, with this if we knew a couple of things first.

1.What is he playing? (list wise)
2. What are you playing? (list wise)

What are the tactics that you both use?

With this information we will be able to give you a more detailed response.

Hehe, time to get him some more dice! I was rolling so bad at my FLGS, that my oppentent actually bought me a nice new pack of 36 dice And i started rolling better instantly! it was so funny!
But on a serious note, i agree with the above poster, what kinds of lists are you guyz running?

Cjsuner wrote:Hehe, time to get him some more dice! I was rolling so bad at my FLGS, that my oppentent actually bought me a nice new pack of 36 dice And i started rolling better instantly! it was so funny!
But on a serious note, i agree with the above poster, what kinds of lists are you guyz running?

There are actually bad dice, and sometimes enough in a set to make that set bad. Mostly because the QA on GW and chessex dice isn't too good (you can see bubbles in clear dice, and if you carefully saw through them, you can see them in opaque dice). Also because small dice with round corners show the weighting bias that occurs from having different amounts of material removed from the pips (dice have a tendency to end up heavy side up when rolled, for some reason). I have one dice that from a chessex poly set that actually bounces like a lopsided foot ball, like somebody tapped weights to one side (huge bubble, bought the set just so I can show there are actually bad dice).

As for the ork problem... Orks aren't marines, they have way more bad combinations and bad units, so require a bit more work to make something that can win. Its just the nature of playing a xenos army, they aren't as forgiving as playing marines. But if your opponent doesn't want help, we can't exactly do much. I'm also thinking that there is more than just list building involved, there might be inflexible thinking in the way: the "I'm going to do things this way, no matter what". People will continue banging their head against a wall because reality doesn't conform with what their ideas say it should be. Some diplomacy might be required, which means the attitude "he doesn't listen to me" needs to go. Some people, particularly stubborn ones (which isn't a bad thing, stubbornness is useful), don't respond well to condescending tone (and will read help as condescending). If that doesn't work, and he continues to play in a poor unscientific manner, than the only thing I can say is he isn't ever going to be competitive, and if you want to play him still you are going to have to dumb down your own list or play style. I mean, there really isn't any way to force a casual player to "play to win" so that just leaves playing beer and pretzel style gaming. Nothing wrong with that, but might be a poor match for people who do "play to win".

notabot187 I have been telling him about his dice and I am going to have him read this post so he can see somebody else say it. He plays to win, but he tends to think of only one turn at a time and I think of how it will in-packed the rest of the game. When I get home I will put what we have so y'all can help me help him. I just don't want him to quit like last time when I went 27-6-0(the 6 losses was learning my army and how to play). So I will post later the list thanks

Yea, post a rough of what he plays, and post what you play with against him. DO NOT weaken your list unless its honestly just him not being able to beat you, it happens, there is always someone better then you.

Orks are a forgiving army, but that doesnt mean you can just take a mishmash and play like butt and still come out winning, hes not playing with the SW for goodness sake

Okay what he plays with most

hq
War Boss 100pts.
power klaw
'eavy Armour
cybork bodies

elite

Nobz x9 with Painboy x1 460pts.
Big choppers x6
Pk x4
'eavy Armour
cybork bodies

Burna Boyz x5 75pts.

Lootas x4 with Mek 75pts.

troops
ork boyz x29 with Nob x1 330pts.
'ard boyz
-nob Pk
bosspole

ork boyz with Nobx30 240
shootas
big shootas x3
-nob pk
bosspole
'eavy armour

ork boyz with Nobx30 240
shootas
big shootas x3
-nob pk
bosspole
'eavy armour

ork boyz x12 127pts.
trukk
arour plates
wreckin' ball

gretchin x15 runtherd 55pts.

gretchin x15 runtherd 55pts.

fast
warbikes x2 with nob 105pts.
pk
bosspole

deffkoptas x3 135pts.
twin-linked rokkit launcha x3

total 1997pts.

My BA army

hq
Librarian 175pts.
epistolary
JP
smite
the sanguine sword

elites
Sanguinary Guard x5 245pts.
Death Mask
Infernus pistol
PF

Terminator Squad 200pts.

Sanguinary Priest x3 270pts.
PS
JP

troops
Death Company x5 465pts.
JP
PW x5
plasma pistol x1

DC Dreadnought x1 125pts.
blood talons

Assault Squad x5 150pts.
JP
plasma pistol x2
PW x1
Melta bombs

fast
baal Predator x1 140pts.
flamestorm cannon
heavy flamers

heavy
stormraven gunship 225pts.
typhoon missile launcher

total 1995pts.

These are the Armies we play with most and he maybe kill two of my units, but that has only happen a couple of times.

Warboss and Nobz on foot is a bad idea stick them on warbikes or in a battle wagon.

5 Burna Boyz on foot is a bad way to go, go with 15 in a battle wagon.

Lootas are great meks are not drop the mek.

Boys are OK drop the armor it's kind of a point sink, I usually only will put armor on a boyz mob if running with Grotsnik to make a super hard unit. I'd drop the 'eavy armor on the nobz too, your boyz are your armor.

Single trukk has a big "kick me" sign on it, take more or drop them, though if he does upgrade to Battle Wagons keep it and add a KFF big mek so you can run it on the flank of a central battle wagon for the KFF benefit.

Gretchin are fine

Warbike mobs are meh, more of a PK delivery system but we have better anti tank options.

Split up the deffkoptas in as many units as possible for leadership/panic reasons.

Yeah, that is a pretty awful list. But also pretty normal for many ork players who don't play competitively. Crappy warboss? Check, nobs that soak tons of points but don't have a transport? Check Burna boyz without transport? Check. 1 small unit of lootas with a MEK of all things? Check. 90 Boyz without a kan wall or KFF in a 2k list? Check (they are slow moving crap that doesn't threaten mobile units, and just get beat by real CC units, you have to support them better). Gretchin are fine. A single unit of bikers that don't know that you take tons of bkers or none? Check. all deffkoptas in one units? Check. No heavy supoort, depsite multiple good choices in that slot? Check (kans, wagons, and hell even big guns are better than nothing).

Now the BA list isn't exactly good, but it is very good in CC, and its running against an ork player who thinks that ork boyz are good in CC against CC specialists...

I would change my BA, but he can't beat them. I have been telling him since we started to get more trukk and a battlewagon and kans. I am going to show him this to let him know. He is bad about just charging in not thinking that this BA is JP friendly. Thank you guys I hope y'all don't mind if I show him your post.

This is a case of conversions. I play against a blood angels opponents and I do pretty well. *cough cough*
First of all, I love 'ard boyz, but not neccesary really. Their armor saves don't mean gak when the points can be used somewhere else.
Tear the arms off a boy, cut up some shootas, glue 'em together and make 15 lootas.
Kick the boys out of the trukk and put the nobz with the warboss in it.
Convert that mek into a Big Mek using the Mek body, use the left over points from the ard boyz to give him a KFF with some bits, it's a quick make out of anything if the orks believe it works; it works, paste it to his back, maybe give him a burna when your friend is feeling better with his play style.
It might look like a waste but give the deffkoptas buzzsaws, get rid of the warbikers, and make the deffkoptas three independentant units, if you don't go first outflank. Use them to go right after that stormraven with a turbo scout move and make sure they all try to shoot and charge it if possible. Kill it first turn. Don't care if your koptas die, the randomness of orks makes them playable and winable only if you care about their lives as much as they care about them. If they do live spam them against that flamer on the BA list and thought they'll probably loose but go after the Dreadnought he's a problem once you take care of their speed.
March the boyz up relelntlessly, some blast templates on board, no fear, keep them 2" base to base minimize casualties from blast and template. Thos factors get taken care of, march them in closely stacke hordes to maximize charge attacks. Spam at the units do not care how many die.
Put red paint on your trukk, are you an ork player? Red miks it go faster.
If you want to run bikers, convert them to nobz and buy 3 more. I run a six pack with a painboy it is awesome and a scary thing to face. I normally only run one or two PK's because I perfer forcing my opponent to make more saves then me making more succesful hits. Plus terminators go simultaneoulsy with PK's but might fail saves on BigChoppas first so not get attacks against me, but that's my playstyle and I base it on my rolling.
Get rid of the burnas. Against BA, I would recommend converting them to TankBustas or more lootas...Tankbustas I like. They eat up fire if nothing else.
If you roll alot of ones and twos proxy some flashgits and see how they work out for you, worked wonders for me. AP 1 and 2 often, only 3 or four hits, I don't run the Gets Hot! upgrade, not neccesary, and they earn their points most games.
You can still run four nobz and 5 gitz without heavy conversions.
For buying purposes get some more bikes and kans are amazing.
My anti Space Marin list at fivehundred points that hasnt lost has three kans, seperate units, with MegaBlastas.
Alot of it is in tactically playing, find what is most thretening to you and what your opponent wants to kill of yours the most use these things to your advantage.
Threatening against ork hordes, templates and blast. Locate and destroy, reason for running the deffkoptas as three seperate units. Trust me, it works.
Other then that, tell him to pay attention to himself more than you. Find what he's using that works for him, what doesn't. So he can build a list that fits his style and his rolling average.
I've said too much. Sorry.

Guy needs a theme for his orks. He has two elements in play - the Green Tide in terms of boyz & nobz, and Speed Freakz with the trukker boyz, bikers and koptas. My advice is to pick one of them and go with it. It's either more boyz potentially with kanz/dreadz or he buys more trukks and bikers and potentially a battlewagon. He could easily switch up to Battlewagon style lists, that's his call.

Biggest flaw is probably pointed out by notabot: Heavy Support is crowded with the best units in our codex, leaving it empty sets you up to failure against any semi-focused opponent.

Otherwise notabot, Runna and Juvieus Kaine are giving great advice (except for KMB kanz ), can't add much to that.

i play blood angels a lot with my orks and i'm quite proud of my list... and i've never beaten them, they're broken, feel no pain marines are effing ridiculous.
my army beats most other armies no probs its just my mates blood angels are a constant thorn in my side... so i just put up with it and content myself with popping his land raider whenever possible.

Lots of good advice in here for your friend, specially from Runna. His advice is pretty good using what your friend has.


I see a few units that are good, but they are too small too matter right now. And oddly enough, the really hard hitting units, he has too big. The nobs dont need 10 nobs and 4 PK to be effective. Infact, if he had 6 and diversified the nobs so he can maximize wound allocation, they will be cheaper, AND harder to kill. Also the only time Ive ever taken ard boyz, was in a 12 mob in a trukk. I used them to contest objectives later in the game, that was it, taking it on 30 boyz is just hella pricey.

So Id suggest, buy another 2 boxes of burna/lootas and a box of boyz so he can convert that into 10 burnas/10 lootas. You can convert the KMB in the kit into a burna easy enough, and like suggested, use some big shootas and the like to make the 5th loota for each box, its pretty easy to do. Using a mek in either unit is just wasting their potential. If he wants to keep the foot thing going, then he needs to hide the really good units behind boyz/grots (if he doesnt get any kans) or go BW spammy, both builds work really well