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Here was my original list:
HQ
Parasite

Elites
Hive Guard x2
Hive Guard x2
Hive Guard x2

Troops
Termagants x10
Termagants x10
Tervigon – Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst
Tervigon – Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst
Genestealers x19 – Toxin Sacs

Fast Attack
Raveners x6 – Rending Claws
Raveners x6 – Rending Claws
Gargoyles x 19 – Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

Total: 1845

There is a distinct problem when it comes to shooty armies and spearhead. Perhaps (okay almost certainly) this is just a difficulty when it comes to playing Nids in the first place. Facing a shooty DE army last night sealed the deal for me and I've decided to make some changes for further testing and would like some opinions on the list.

HQ
Hive Tyrant – Wings, 2 Twin-Linked Devourers, Hive Commander, Adrenal Glands, Paroxysm, Leech Essence
Tervigon – Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst

Elites
Hive Guard x2
Hive Guard x2
Hive Guard x2

Troops
Termagants x10
Tervigon – Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst
Genestealers x10
Genestealers x9
Genestealers x9

Fast Attack
Raveners x6 – Rending Claws
Raveners x6 – Rending Claws

Now lets examine the list in more detail:

HQ Section
I decided to go with the hive tyrant for options and versatility. While killy and threatening on his own he is more a vehicle for hive commander than anything. I feel I have to be able to play the reserve game better than I would normally be able to with any other HQ. The Tervigon got moved to the HQ section because I only need 1 in troops to take full advantage of potentially outflanking 3 squads of genestealers and a tervigon into my enemy's lines. Plus it saved me 50 points which I really needed to get the extra genestealers.

Elites
Standard stuff really. I'm such an anti-fan of zoanthropes and really anything else in the elites section just pales in comparison to the undeniable necessity for some decent anti-tank which is all the guard provide.

Troops
So I'm still sitting at 5 troops choices but if I'm forced to reserve against a corner deploying/super shooty opponent I can outflank with 4 of my troop choices and have a good shot at getting all of them in (even if not all on the right side).

Fast attack
The ravener ability for deep strike may actually see use now! That's really saying something honestly because before I'd taken my lumps and gained some experience I more or less scoffed at the notion, especially when running without a reserve manipulator.

The whole shebang
Overall I think the list will present very similar threats to my opponent while being more dynamic and unpredictable for my opponent. Outflanking and deepstriking is certainly no guarantee, but having a shot against what tabled me last night is certainly better than having no chance at all.

I dont have much tabletop xp, but ill ask:

how do you deal with high AV wehicles? land riders and such?

How do you protect a tyrant, except catalyst?
It seems hes a bit unprotected for my taste..

The goal is to have enough stuff that whatever is inside said high-av vehicle will die after it kills whatever it assaults to be honest. And really so long as I can kill the rest of my opponent's army efficiently I'm not worried about how dead a unit of mine will be after it gets assaulted by whatever the land raider is carrying.

Protecting the tyrant is a tough question. Going second the list can (and if I'm facing something with a lot of shooting, will) reserve entirely. Even when going first I may opt to have the tyrant in reserve if there isn't enough terrain or against particularly shooty armies. Outside of simply denying turns of shooting my options will depend on how much terrain there is and use a combination of that and my tervigons/raveners to gain cover where possible (the ravener model is pretty big and a unit of 6 could fairly easily give the tyrant cover).

No advice for you on the list, but where in the Bay Area is the event taking place?

East Bay, it's being put on by Reecius. There's a large thread to look through here (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/350862.page) if you want more information.

I like this one a little better than the first incarnation, more genestealers is always a good thing, i think in all honesty the hive tyrant is going to be the first thing to die, but he'll save the raveners in doing so, which I assume is sorta the plan.

Yeah I pretty much agree that he'll be the first to go but you're right in that he'll absorb (hopefully) a fair amount of firepower and if I'm really worried about him getting smoked before he gets a shot off then I'll just deepstrike him onto the table and play it out from there ;-).

After thinking about it for a while and messing with points I've decided from a list building standpoint the hive tyrant is very exposed and if my opponent has any elevation I won't be getting the cover save from the raveners on my tyrant and have opted for what I think will be a safer overall build and still leave me with as many options for reserves as the first one.

Presenting:

1850

HQ
Hive Tyrant – Wings, 2 Twin-Linked Devourers, Hive Commander, Paroxysm, Leech Essence
Tervigon – Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst

Elites
Hive Guard x2
Hive Guard x2
Hive Guard x2

Troops
Termagants x10
Tervigon – Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst
Genestealers x9
Genestealers x9
Genestealers x9

Fast Attack
Raveners x4 – Rending Claws
Raveners x4 – Rending Claws
Gargoyles x20 - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

As far as cover for your Tyrant goes have you thought about giving him 1 guard and hiding the guard behind some stuff giving the Tyrant a cover save. Also I think if you run into any DE(im going with my DE)thats just a hard counter to the nids codex in general.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just saw the wings upgrade on your tyrant...kind of throws my guard idea out the window but still an idea none the less.

Hückleberry wrote:As far as cover for your Tyrant goes have you thought about giving him 1 guard and hiding the guard behind some stuff giving the Tyrant a cover save. Also I think if you run into any DE(im going with my DE)thats just a hard counter to the nids codex in general.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just saw the wings upgrade on your tyrant...kind of throws my guard idea out the window but still an idea none the less.

I see what you're saying but I really don't want to have to walk him in on the board edge (and find another 60 points to axe somewhere) when he could deepstrike somewhere and at least get either psychic powers off for a charge from another unit or shoot something.

It's kinda funny you mention DE because it was actually a vassal game vs Dash's dark eldar that spurned on these changes to the list and vs msu venom spam I think it is significantly stronger, or if there's a particular DE build that would trash it I would like to know.

I am however considering dropping 1 genestealer from each squad and 3 gargoyles to give the rest of the stealers toxin sacs. Would that be an improvement to the list overall?

TS on stealers, definately!

I see your list standing a chance against venom spam. I've only got about 10 games with my DE under my belt so I'm trying to get as many games in before the bay open lol.

Yeah I know what you mean about needing to get more games in before the open.

I got another suggestion that I think has some merit I thought I would put out there for further opinion. Since in the list the raveners, genestealers and hive tyrant will be doing a good amount of the heavy lifting in the list I could drop the toxin sacs and adrenal glands and 4 gargoyles to get another ravener per squad. With the gargoyles expected to be a meat shield and die anyway this doesn't seem like such a bad idea and would allow me to use them in more sacrificial ways such as surrounding units I know they can't beat to prevent the charge or other ways of blocking off my enemy from the important parts of my army.

It would look like:

HQ
Hive Tyrant – Wings, 2 Twin-Linked Devourers, Hive Commander, Paroxysm, Leech Essence
Tervigon – Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst

Elites
Hive Guard x2
Hive Guard x2
Hive Guard x2

Troops
Termagants x10
Tervigon – Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst
Genestealers x9
Genestealers x9
Genestealers x9

Fast Attack
Raveners x5 – Rending Claws
Raveners x5 – Rending Claws
Gargoyles x16

Thoughts?