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So I have been doing some reading on the forums by various posters. I see a lot of people recommending the Grotsnik wall. 30 'ard boys in a line providing cover saves to the green tide of boys behind it and being just a beast at soaking up damage with the 4+ armor, feel no pain and being 31 strong. I am considering basing a list around this as I love the green tide but I don't like having to use KFF meks as you can only really cover 2 frontal unit and 2 units behind those units if you wanted and because of this you usually want them 30 strong units. With the Grostnik wall I can run 20 strong units meaning more PK delivery systems and all 4 units can be lined up behind Grotsnik's wall. My question is how does the Dok's one scalpal... rule effect this strategy? If a rhino comes flying up on a right flank does the whole wall pivot that way? I do like how this wall actually frees up an HQ choice, instead of taking 2 KFF meks you are now taking 1 Mad Dok which allows for a warboss with PK for some S10 attacks. The list I am currently considering looks like this:

Mad Dok Grotsnik 160
Warboss -PK -Cybork -Attack Squig 110

Lootasx5 75
Lootasx5 75
Kommandosx8 -2xBurna -Snikrot 195

Ork Boyzx30-Sluggas -'Ard Boyz -Nob -PK 335
Ork Boyzx20 -Nob -PK -BP -2xBS 170
Ork Boyzx20 -Nob -PK -BP -2xBS 170
Ork Boyzx20 -Nob -PK -BP -2xBS 170
Gretchinx10 -Runtherdx1 40

1500

I assume shoota boyz on the units that are not Grotsnik's wall. My guess is they have to run during their movement phase due to his "always most as fast as possible toward the nearest enemy", I maybe incorrect and it may be better to run all Orks as shootas. Snikrot and his unit is there to make the enemy fear the board edge and therefore move closer to the wall similar to his use in a kan wall. I might be better dropping them for 2 TL Rokkit/Buzzsaw koptas and boosting up the gretchin unit a bit more in numbers.

The problem is that is someone scout moves or just uses fast skimmers to run up one side of your "wall", your "wall" will have to go chasing after the offenders (because of Grotsnick's rule) and now your entire tide is exposed to enemy fire.

Better to use Kans and a KFF.

If you're going to do this, I'd almost definitely find points to make Grotsnik's wall all Cybork. Any AP4 weapons are going to both ignore your armour and your FnP, and there goes your 4+ cover save for the rest of your boyz.

I would save points and not put a PK nob in Grotsniks unit. He has a str10 power klaw already so another PK is just going to be redundant and you can put the points toward something else.

As noted previously, a 35 point deffkopta could be used to pull Grotsnik's mob out of position, meaning your advance is slowed or you have to give up the cover.

@anvildude: Only AP2/AP1 or close combat weapons that ignore armor saves also ignore FNP.

Anvildude wrote:If you're going to do this, I'd almost definitely find points to make Grotsnik's wall all Cybork. Any AP4 weapons are going to both ignore your armour and your FnP, and there goes your 4+ cover save for the rest of your boyz.

Not true.....
Only AP 1 & 2 weapons, insta-gib S8 and higher, and CC weapons that ignore armor will negate FNP. AP4 weapons will not. (ninja'd)

However, you are still better off using Kans + KFFs - You get more firepower, more S10 CC attacks, an AV11 wall with 4+ cover, and you don't have to chase the closest unit

Anvildude wrote:Any AP4 weapons are going to both ignore your armour and your FnP, and there goes your 4+ cover save for the rest of your boyz.

Not so. Only shooting weapons that are double tough, and AP1 or AP2 ignore FNP. Now melee is another matter, but that's where you want to be in the first place...

I'd still try to find the points for Cybork for this unit though. A 30 strong cybork unit with a 4+ armor save is going to be a bear to handle.

Edit: Doh! Double ninja'd!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alerian wrote:However, you are still better off using Kans + KFFs - You get more firepower, more S10 CC attacks, an AV11 wall with 4+ cover, and you don't have to chase the closest unit

This. I love me a Kan Wall Green Tide.

people seem to think that "One Scalpel Short" is Rage; it is not.

One Scalpel Short defines Grotsnik as moving as close as possible to the nearest enemy unit, it also grants OSS to emery model in his unit. Meaning that every model in a unit joined by grotsnik must move as close as possible to the nearest enemy movement, this will cause the entire line to bunch up.

Rage forces the "unit" to move as close as possible to the nearest enemy unit; this means that the closest model to the closest unit must move as close as possible, and the rest can spread out so long as they maintain coherency.

Huge, vast, difference.

Kommissar Kel wrote:people seem to think that "One Scalpel Short" is Rage; it is not.

One Scalpel Short defines Grotsnik as moving as close as possible to the nearest enemy unit, it also grants OSS to emery model in his unit. Meaning that every model in a unit joined by grotsnik must move as close as possible to the nearest enemy movement, this will cause the entire line to bunch up.

Rage forces the "unit" to move as close as possible to the nearest enemy unit; this means that the closest model to the closest unit must move as close as possible, and the rest can spread out so long as they maintain coherency.

Huge, vast, difference.

This is exactly why I said that scout moves, or fast skimmers that go flat out up the side, will ruin the whole "Grotsnick Wall" idea....