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I was thinking of a cheap deathstar unit (if those exist ) and came up with the idea of 5 normal terminators with falchions. Obviously a huge competitor with halberds, falchions are rarely taken because they actually have a points cost. Terminators also are assumed crap compared to paladins because of the lack of a decent invulnerable save. But then I thought of adding a librarian with quickening. Admittedly, the only way to make terminators more survivable in shooting is make them paladins, but who needs warding staves and swords and stuff when you are I10 with 4 attacks on the charge each? I was thinking of adding a banner to increase those to 5, but that would mean losing 4 attacks, and gaining 1 from each of the remaning 4.... meaning I have exactly the same amount of attacks (Okay the Libby gets an extra but seriously..) and am spending 20 more points to do so, so banner is out.

If the squad casts Hammerhand, then the Libby casts Quickening and Might of Titan, you have str 6 ini 10 4 attacks each Terminators with 2D6+6 Penetration! And thats on the 1+A for Falch's, imagine if they added 2! 6 on the charge with a banner! And a GM could give them counter attack! And then the Librarian could cast Sanctuary!...sorry getting carried away

Obviously this is no super cheap unit, but it is meant to be a deathstar, its only 5 man (6 inc. libby) so with Falchions the terminators come to 225, 245 with a PsyCan, and we'll just say the Libby makes it to the 200 points mark, so we have a 440-ish point unit that beats face in combat and is pretty good at shooting, with decent survivability.

The downsides?
- Psychic defense hurts these guys.
- Shooting hurts these guys BAD
- They need a delivery system.

The only real delivery systems come in the form of 200+ point units, the stormraven and the LR. IMO storm ravens have no place in a GK army, they just dont fit right, and land raiders are pretty difficult to fit in for a whopping 250 points, soo.....

What do I do Dakka? Is it a stupid idea? Thoughts? Experiences? Am I a genius? Is it wise to put a Warding Stave on the libby so if anyone singles him out he will be there to stay? Should these guys go all out and be paladins?

Make them Paladins. It's only 75 points, for an extra wound and WS5.

Woah woah woah. I don't have a GK codex. You're talking about GK Librarian Quickening right? In my vanilla SM codex, the way Quickening is written, I didn't think the librarian confered it to the squad he's attached to. Is it different in the GK codex or have I been doing it wrong this whole time? I hope I have....

As said, I'd take Paladins instead of Termies. They are much more durable with diversified equipment.
I'd take them to hold the centre as its a small unit. They could take on every unit that comes close.

I'm pretty sure OP meant Quicksilver instead of Quickening.

Gavo wrote:I'm pretty sure OP meant Quicksilver instead of Quickening.

Indeed, Quicksilver eventually boosts the initiative.

what about making mordiak's ghost terminators into this deathstar?

adds more cost, but fixes delivery issues, add shrouding to the libby to weather the one shooting phase.

A Paladin deathstar using this tactic is extremely deadly, I use only 2 Falchion and 2 Sword with a Staff. The WS5, S5-6, I10 Attacks will splatter anything. Against multiwound units save the Force strike from the squad and go at S5, against single wound just go with S6 and slice on dice on 2+. Another way to get Falchions really dicing is to use a Purifier squad with them and a Librarian, even a 5 man squad can throw down 25 (or 20 depending on your reading of it) attacks at the same crazy I10 and S5 or 6. You can do more than 15 wounds to a horde or around 10 to MEQ giving you basically zero hits back, the only problem is overkilling and getting shot to hell next turn.

I have personally seen the effects of a Falchion squad buffed with Quicksilver.

the results are obscenely bloody.

Holy crap you do not want to have the ghost knights arive at your doorstep like that. Mind you I think quikening only works in your turn or can it be the oponents? Your oponent would have to shoot them out with 2+/3++, good luck.

Quicksilver lasts till the end of the turn.

Turn, when used ambigiously, refers to game turn.

so that means it lasts for both the GK player's and his opponent's turn.

Well it would be a bit like the space marine psyker of the space wolves would it not? If the Grey Knight is second then it only lasts during the grye knight players turn?

correct

Grey Templar wrote:Quicksilver lasts till the end of the turn.

Turn, when used ambigiously, refers to game turn.

so that means it lasts for both the GK player's and his opponent's turn.

Exactly as backward; Turn, unless specified as game turn is always player turn.

BRB page 9 second sentence of first paragraph in the second column.

reinforced in the brb FAQ here:

Q: What is meant when the term ʻturnʼ is used? (p9)
A: Whenever the word turn is used it means player turn.
Otherwise it will clearly state game turn. In a complete
game turn both players get a player turn. Hence one game
turn will comprise two player turns.

Quicksilver only lasts for the Player turn in which it is cast(which incidentally is only his own turn).

Yeah couple stuff ups I did mean quicksilver, damn ex-marine brain!

Yeah it doesnt work on the enemy turn, so getting charged gives this unit problems.

Problem with making them paladins is they are not diversified and I hate fielding non-diversified multiwounded models

Purifiers could be good, but cleansing flame could be overkill and kill the entire enemy unit, which is not what you want to happen, you want to drag out the combat for exactly 1 gameturn, so you can assault on the first turn of combat, kill them on the second turn, consolidate, then on the next turn (coincidentally your turn) you assault something else whilst completely avoiding being shot at.

And termies can survive the reprisal from what is going to be a pretty tough CC squad if its surviving their charge.

Mordracks only problems are A) your sending a 200pt grand master to his death, B) your sending a Librarian to certain death, and C) they cant assault on the turn they arrive, meaning no I10, no charge bonus, and your squad dies a quick death from mass rapid fire and assaults.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Quicksilver lasts till the end of the turn.

Turn, when used ambigiously, refers to game turn.

so that means it lasts for both the GK player's and his opponent's turn.

Exactly as backward; Turn, unless specified as game turn is always player turn.

BRB page 9 second sentence of first paragraph in the second column.

reinforced in the brb FAQ here:

Q: What is meant when the term ʻturnʼ is used? (p9)
A: Whenever the word turn is used it means player turn.
Otherwise it will clearly state game turn. In a complete
game turn both players get a player turn. Hence one game
turn will comprise two player turns.

Quicksilver only lasts for the Player turn in which it is cast(which incidentally is only his own turn).

I think there was a recent FAQ that said the same thing.

Since it only works on the GK players turn it isn't stupid OP, and the unit can be counter charged. Or TH/SS termies can give them a run for their money. Or any GK unit with psych out grenades will reduce them to I1. It's powerful, but not broken.

eeeh brain fart


but quiicksilver or not, TH/SS termies go afterwards

I personly don't think paladins are worth their cost, since everyone knows they are a really good unit, most players point a lot of heavy stuff their way.

And anything strenght 8 or more cause instant death to them anyways. I normalyl aim that kind of stuff their way. My friend play a ten man strong paladin squad in his army and the few times it made in into combat they where devistating, but if they didn't they ended up being a massive waste of points.

A good vindicator shot or most IG arty will make quick work of this unit if its ever out in the open for a turn.

This unit could either be a massive killing machine and win the game, or be a huge waste of points if its transport gets popped or if it's ever no in an assault.

But this is just from my experince YMMV

Grey Templar wrote:eeeh brain fart


but quiicksilver or not, TH/SS termies go afterwards

Yep, but it's 3++ invo versus either a 5++ invo or a 5++ invo inside a null zone. If it's inside a null zone it's also inside the range of a LD10 psychic hood which would shut down hammerhand which would then require an average of 12 falchion attacks to drop a single th/ss. Falchions versus th/ss seems well balanced to me, and highly in favor of whoever gets the charge.

I run a Draigo, Librarian, 10 Paladin strong deathstar right now. I10, 3 Attacks each (at least), s6, rerolling 1s to wound... Everything it touches dies.

Amaya wrote:I run a Draigo, Librarian, 10 Paladin strong deathstar right now. I10, 3 Attacks each (at least), s6, rerolling 1s to wound... Everything it touches dies.

Once again still balanced. Marbo or a Demo charge SWS would make short worth of that deathstar.

How is a 5 man paladin squad tooled out for close combat but also with two psycannons and psybolt ammo not diversified? Not that I would put psybolt ammo on such a small squad, but you could if diversification was a must for you. Grey Knights are the king of diversification.

Well thats a simple fact of having 5 falchion terminators. You cant actually modularly give paladins falchions and a heavy weapon, youd have to cut off the hand on the heavy weapon arm. Thats no problem though, because the rules do say your able to wield falchions and heavy weapons, so its not against the rules to do that.

The problem is, even when you take as much diversification as you can, its difficult to even milk 5 different termies when their all wielding the same NFW. I have fielded diversified termies, and only 2 of them had the same NFW.

To put it into an easier format to understand:

Terminator 1: Falchion, Storm Bolter
Terminator 2: Master Crafted Falchion, Storm Bolter
Terminator 3: Falchion, Psycannon
Terminator 4: Falchion, Incinerator/Psilencer
Terminator 5: Falchion/ ?????

unless you can mastercraft Storm Bolters...checking codex.

OH! well, so you can. so the last termie would be Falchion/ Mastercrafted storm bolter. Neat. Now the question is, on terminators, Incinerator or Psilencer?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
(Or just another Psycannon?)

Tactical Nuclear Panda wrote:I personly don't think paladins are worth their cost, since everyone knows they are a really good unit, most players point a lot of heavy stuff their way.

And anything strenght 8 or more cause instant death to them anyways. I normalyl aim that kind of stuff their way. My friend play a ten man strong paladin squad in his army and the few times it made in into combat they where devistating, but if they didn't they ended up being a massive waste of points.

A good vindicator shot or most IG arty will make quick work of this unit if its ever out in the open for a turn.

This unit could either be a massive killing machine and win the game, or be a huge waste of points if its transport gets popped or if it's ever no in an assault.

But this is just from my experince YMMV

Draigo saves S8AP2 wounds like a champ.

Jaon wrote:Well thats a simple fact of having 5 falchion terminators. You cant actually modularly give paladins falchions and a heavy weapon, youd have to cut off the hand on the heavy weapon arm. Thats no problem though, because the rules do say your able to wield falchions and heavy weapons, so its not against the rules to do that.

The problem is, even when you take as much diversification as you can, its difficult to even milk 5 different termies when their all wielding the same NFW. I have fielded diversified termies, and only 2 of them had the same NFW.

To put it into an easier format to understand:

Terminator 1: Falchion, Storm Bolter
Terminator 2: Master Crafted Falchion, Storm Bolter
Terminator 3: Falchion, Psycannon
Terminator 4: Falchion, Incinerator/Psilencer
Terminator 5: Falchion/ ?????

unless you can mastercraft Storm Bolters...checking codex.

OH! well, so you can. so the last termie would be Falchion/ Mastercrafted storm bolter. Neat. Now the question is, on terminators, Incinerator or Psilencer?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
(Or just another Psycannon?)

Mastercrafted psycannon.

It depends on whether the OP is talking about a multi-purpose role on the battle field or wound allocation shenanigans.Both are easy to create using grey knights. I recognise my original comment did not take wound allocation into account but it can be done quite easily by master-crafting.