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Hey guys, I had this crazy idea last night and I haven't come to my senses yet. Basically I'm sick of my guardsmen so I'm rebuilding them, both model and list wise. So I thought, why not make the coolest army ever? and I put this list together. While I'm pretty sure it's going to work, I thought it would be interesting to see what you all think. I've probably overlooked some things anyway and I'd like to get my guardsmen right this time, so it would be swell if you could help me out. Here's what I have so far:

CCS: PGx3/medic 270
-creed
-chimera

PCS: PGx3 180
-chenkov
-chimera
PIS: PW 115
-chimera
PIS: PW 115
-chimera
PIS: PW 115
-chimera

Vets: MGx3/PF 170
-chimera
Vets: MGx3/PF 170
-chimera
Vets: FLx3 210
-valkyrie
-forward sentries

1345pts

I'm going for 1500pts, so as you can see there's more to add.

What do you think would make the most sense out of the following:

1-2 basic rough rider squads
A pair of armoured sentinels
Carapace armour all around
Vox casters
More guns, such as:
-fourth plasma in PCS
-heavy weapons in PIS
-special weapons in PIS
A PIS commissar
A leman russ
A manticore/basilisk/medusa/colossus
Something I haven't thought of

Oh and I don't want this to derail into medic vs. plasmagun, so let me just say that I would never ever take the medic if I didn't have such a cool model. I am 100% in the 4PG camp, but there's no way I am not using this guy. There's a couple other choices that you probably won't like but we'll get to those I'm sure.

So what do you think? : D


Edit: unintended ork faces

If your using Creed you want Kell for 'Listen up, maggots!' to use Creed's leadership for Orders instead of the unit. You will want Voxs if your doing Orders just for the re-roll. Read the Orders rules carefully, since you can't give orders to units in a transport, and can only give orders out of a Chimrea due to the Chimera's special 'Mobile Command Unit' ability. If your going full Mech, Creed might be a waste.

Since you have a PCS and if you keep Creed, I would suggest a HWT, like 3 ACs or 3 ML (or both) and use 'Bring it down!' to give them twin linked.

I do enjoy the combo of Creed and Rough Riders with 'Move, move, move!' and 'For the honor of Cadia!' orders in my own army. Give the Rough Riders 2 melta guns and after their charge you can use them as Tank Hunters.

Ok, all those PW and PF's floating around in that list, lose them. If you are in combat, your dead, no mass of PWs will save you, Power weapons are only really useful in blobs. Use the points to put in more special weapons.

PCS with flamers, vets with PG would be the general rule to make use of the BS.

Creed is a bit of a waste here as he is really for holding a gun line and you can't give orders to squads in vehicles.

What is a vet squad in a valk doing with forward sentries? you are just wasting 30 points.

A lot of people think RR are useless, and they usually are, but here they may work, just have to keep them behind the tanks and choose your target well. I wouldn't bother giving them any special weapons, you need to keep as many lances as possible to make sure they are effective in the one strike they get.

Other than that a Battle psyker squad in a chimera could do some nasty damage, you might want to consider fitting one in.

BlkTom wrote:Since you have a PCS and if you keep Creed, I would suggest a HWT, like 3 ACs or 3 ML (or both) and use 'Bring it down!' to give them twin linked.

I like guns as much as the next guy, but the BiD combo is pretty lacklustre without kell or an LC to boost the HWT leadership, besides it would look stupid when everything else is meched up.

BlkTom wrote:I do enjoy the combo of Creed and Rough Riders with 'Move, move, move!' and 'For the honor of Cadia!' orders in my own army. Give the Rough Riders 2 melta guns and after their charge you can use them as Tank Hunters.

Guaiwu wrote:A lot of people think RR are useless, and they usually are, but here they may work, just have to keep them behind the tanks and choose your target well. I wouldn't bother giving them any special weapons, you need to keep as many lances as possible to make sure they are effective in the one strike they get.

"move move move" seems like it would work brilliantly with rough riders, when they pass the order. However, meltaguns are exchanged for hunting lances, and like guaiwu says taking them will bring the unit's already questionable power down to near useless, especially since they can't fire them because they'll be fleeting. They also have krak grenades already that work against most tanks

Guaiwu wrote:What is a vet squad in a valk doing with forward sentries? you are just wasting 30 points.

Ah, I thought you'd never ask. The plan with these guys is to drop them near or onto objectives in terrain, burn out the usually light infantry holding it, and go to ground for a 2+ cover save (and gimped enemy assault). If it weren't for the scatter risk, this would be a brilliant idea, but it's good enough that I'm going to try it. These guys are staying unless someone can think of a better way to accomplish the same thing, like with 5man storm trooper teams.

BlkTom wrote:If your using Creed you want Kell for 'Listen up, maggots!' to use Creed's leadership for Orders instead of the unit. You will want Voxs if your doing Orders just for the re-roll. Read the Orders rules carefully, since you can't give orders to units in a transport, and can only give orders out of a Chimrea due to the Chimera's special 'Mobile Command Unit' ability. If your going full Mech, Creed might be a waste.

Guaiwu wrote:Creed is a bit of a waste here as he is really for holding a gun line and you can't give orders to squads in vehicles.

I am not getting kell. Creed alone is almost 100pts and pretty much the only reason I'm taking him is for the furious charge/fearless orders. Which I find is reason enough, but by all means hit me with some numbers.

Guaiwu wrote:Ok, all those PW and PF's floating around in that list, lose them. If you are in combat, your dead, no mass of PWs will save you, Power weapons are only really useful in blobs. Use the points to put in more special weapons.

I can see why you'd say this, but I am under the impression that power fists can be quite useful in my veteran squads, especially with creed's order. The purpose of these guys is threatening the (very very few) heavier vehicles that i face, as well as getting in the face of monstrous creatures and necrons (and marines). With Honor of Cadia, they have 3 melta shots and 3 s7 power attacks, probably enough to lay a beating on an MC, provided I've managed to weaken it a bit beforehand. But like I said, I'm open to suggestions provided they're based on math and/or tactical insight.

Right now I feel like giving the infantry squads some autocannons for when they're camping light vehicles. I'd go with missile launchers but they would need BS4, which I could get by making them vets, but that would feel pretty boring. I'd have to drop chenkov too. PBS is a very interesting suggestion, weaken resolve would give my guys a bit more assault punch. Not sure how I'd represent them, any ideas?

To be frank, my IG army is a footslogger assault army at 2k. I run 3 x10 Rough Rider Squads and a 10 man Ogryn squad with a Lord Commissar (Yarrick if I get the points, no more exicutions...). I also run Creed and Kell. I personally do not give the RRs special weapons, but I do give them Kamir and outflank Kamir's squad with Creed's Genius ability to give a unit Scout.

RRs are nasty, trust me, but 22 Str 5 Init 5 attacks vs 18 in a 10 man squad with melta guns... will you really notice the difference? Trust me, the biggest problem I have is what to do after I crush whatever I charged. If your just gonna suicide them, then there isn't a problem. You can even use them against vehicles with AV 10 rear armor and pop them with a 10 man squad, specially if it didn't move. I will also note that Furious Charge doesn't help the RRs alot, as their Init and Str are fixed as per the BRB FAQ... But their Init might go up +1 still and they would still get Fearless if you use 'For Cadia!'.
Q: Does the Furious Charge special rule give +1 Strength
to attacks made with a close combat weapon that strikes
at a specific strength value? For example are hits from
Gabriel Sethʼs Blood Reaver resolved at Strength 8 or 9
when he has Furious Charge? (p75)
A: No. Hits from Gabriel Sethʼs Blood Reaver would still be
resolved at Strength 8.

To be frank, if you want melee beef to your units, for 60pts a pop you can add a Priest with a Chainfist to 5 squads. They also allow you to re-roll failed to Hit rolls in melee.

With them you can replace all the power weapons/fist in those 5 squads and add in Priests, use the 'For Cadia!' Order and actually be solid in close combat. If you can add them AND keep the weapons you may actually /want/ to assault with them.

Mate, I'm sorry but you can't give scouts to rough riders, only infantry or vehicle units.

In a 10-man squad or RR I might consider meltaguns, but I feel like that many would be hard to maneuver.

After running some numbers I've decided to drop the power weapons in my line squads, because they only add 1 wound against meq and assaulting isn't even their purpose. This means they don't really count against the usefulness of creed's order anymore, so to cut points I'm thinking maybe I should drop creed and have chenkov tag along with the veterans to make them stubborn. It's almost as good as fearless at keeping them in assault for a second go with the PF.
Problem is, creed is certainly cheaper than chenkov's whole platoon, so I'd have to figure out something for them to do other than provide cheap scoring chimeras. Thoughts?


Edit: Oh yeah priests. I've toyed with the idea of adding one or two, but I think they cost too much for what they do. For the price of two with eviscerators, I could have a basilisk or hellhound. Or those two armoured sentinels.

Humm... good call, thanks for pointing that out.

I haven't played my IG in a bit, been working on my Marine army. So I decided to re-read Kamir. They gave him Furious Charge and Fearless for his unit, so it makes me wonder if Rough Riders actually do get the +1 Str then. Nothing in the IG FAQ about it... hummm. *shrugs* I would say yes, otherwise they would make a note of it.

Well, your thoughts on just dropping the PCS and their units then for more Vets then? Maybe even drop the CCS and get 2 Lord Commisars and go all Vets? Their Aura will at least give you a Ld 10 within 6", but I am leary of attaching them to squads, unless you don't care about the sargents.

10 RR is overkill for sure, and actually a waste of points, 6-7 is usually enough to do the job. (I have actually used RRs and they can be really nasty but if the choice is them or a valk or hellhound, or banewolf, well, that really isn't a choice at all).

Glad to see you have come to your senses about the PWs, guardsmen do not belong anywhere near combat. Your idea about the PF in the vets is interesting, try it out, would like to know if it works for you.

Main problem with orders is when you are running this type of force it is usually spread out and tends to be out of range to take the orders. I wouldn't depend on them to bolster a mech force.

Priests are a complete waste of time, the only 2 units that they are useful in (ogryns and RR) can't use them. Putting them with the vets just looks like throwing good points after bad.

There are some advisor models and inquisitor retinue that could represent Psykers. Alternatively, just do them up as bare headed guardsmen with some funny symbols on there clothing and las pistols.

Yeah those power weapons were a pretty stupid idea I guess. Replaced them with autocannons for now, so they have the dual purpose of shoving chimera hulls down everyone's throat and providing suppressive fire. I'll give them hull HBs too.

The order range thing I felt would be ameliorated by creed's 24" range, but there's going to be so many chimeras clogging up the board that I couldn't well rely on him to have LOS to anything. I'm considering straken at the moment, but having trouble justifying almost 100pts for a 12" furious/counter bubble. It helps that he plows ass in assault I guess, what do you think?

Guaiwu wrote:just do them up as bare headed guardsmen with some funny symbols on there clothing and las pistols.

Ah, the old paranormal ops ploy. My scumbag commander is certainly not beyond employing borderline heretic methods. I'll have a look in the old bits box.

Almarine wrote:Yeah those power weapons were a pretty stupid idea I guess. Replaced them with autocannons for now, so they have the dual purpose of shoving chimera hulls down everyone's throat and providing suppressive fire. I'll give them hull HBs too.

Try a bunch of loadouts and see what works best for you, anythings better than kamikazi though,

Almarine wrote:The order range thing I felt would be ameliorated by creed's 24" range, but there's going to be so many chimeras clogging up the board that I couldn't well rely on him to have LOS to anything. I'm considering straken at the moment, but having trouble justifying almost 100pts for a 12" furious/counter bubble. It helps that he plows ass in assault I guess, what do you think?

Straken is basically a must for anyone who wants any type of assault capability in his guard, which is probably why I've never used him.

Almarine wrote:Ah, the old paranormal ops ploy. My scumbag commander is certainly not beyond employing borderline heretic methods. I'll have a look in the old bits box.

Try some warhammer fantasy parts if you have them, zombie hands and Empire, or chaos heads.

Guaiwu wrote:
Straken is basically a must for anyone who wants any type of assault capability in his guard, which is probably why I've never used him.

Still, over a regular commander with PF all he has is FC,CA and a better fist, for 80pts.

BlkTom wrote:Humm... good call, thanks for pointing that out.

I haven't played my IG in a bit, been working on my Marine army. So I decided to re-read Kamir. They gave him Furious Charge and Fearless for his unit, so it makes me wonder if Rough Riders actually do get the +1 Str then. Nothing in the IG FAQ about it... hummm. *shrugs* I would say yes, otherwise they would make a note of it.

Well, your thoughts on just dropping the PCS and their units then for more Vets then? Maybe even drop the CCS and get 2 Lord Commisars and go all Vets? Their Aura will at least give you a Ld 10 within 6", but I am leary of attaching them to squads, unless you don't care about the sargents.

I missed your post there. Kamir is pretty much useless imho, even if he didn't complicate the use of his squad infinitely by having rage, all he really brings is another attack. I don't think furious charge works on hunting lances, it's probably for when they are spent.

I originally took the platoon for two reasons - to use my converted WHFB beastlord with PW and bolt pistol as chenkov so he can bark (haha) orders, and for cheap armoured scoring units. I've dropped the plasma in my PCS for GLs, because they will probably get more shots off and if they don't because he's moving to stay in stubborn range, at least they're not 60pts down the drain. This has brought the platoon down to 500pts total, for 4 scoring chimeras capable of messing up a raider's day pretty badly. I'm no longer 100% convinced it's a good buy, but chenkov is a perfect fit for my beastdude, so I don't know. Here's the list after changes:

CCS:MGx3/medic......hunt heavy vehicles, monstrous creatures, meq)
-power fist
-chimera

PCS:GLx4................scoring chimera, stubborn bubble
-chenkov
-chimera
PIS:AC
-chimera:hull HB.......scoring chimera, suppressive fire
PIS:AC
-chimera:hull HB.......scoring chimera, suppressive fire
PIS:AC
-chimera:hull HB.......scoring chimera, suppressive fire

Vets:MGx3/PF..........hunt heavy vehicles, monstrous creatures, meq
-chimera
Vets:MGx3/PF..........hunt heavy vehicles, monstrous creatures, meq
-chimera
Vets:FLx3................take and hold terrain objectives
-valkyrie
-forward sentries

1230pts

edit: dots and comments

Almarine wrote:Still, over a regular commander with PF all he has is FC,CA and a better fist, for 80pts.

Oh, straken is definitely really awesome, just doesn't fit my style

Almarine wrote:I originally took the platoon for two reasons - to use my converted WHFB beastlord with PW and bolt pistol as chenkov so he can bark (haha) orders,

That is awesome love it! I can't really see Chenkov doing very much for his points though, but whatever.


BTW, a CCS with MG dosen't need a medic,

Still not sold on your valk with forward sentry veterans, you could just sit the valk back and take shots until turn 5 and then rush it forwards and cap an objective on turn 5, if its still alive (for that you don't need forward sentries), or you could rush forward early and fight it out with several of the opponents units with no support (again you don't need forward sentries, and you'll die) or 3, you attack the point with several units and leave this one to protect it, (which is fine, its just that you'll need to come out of cover to get into position to use your flamers if you need to defend, again forward sentries is useless). If you put demolitions on the squad you can pie plate termies, then assault tanks and when you're bored flame infantry.

Anyway, its your army.

Heh... 5 Ogryns and a Chimera are 275pts for anti hoard work. And all 5 can fire out of the Fire ports to with their ripper guns! I am semi serious, but I don't know if they will fit the theme of your army. I wouldn't even waste the time putting them in a Chimera and just walk them along. If they are close enough to your PCS or CCS use 'Move!' on them.

On more of a serious note, you could also add in Yarrick and Marbro. Could add Grenaders to your Sentries unit to protect them from flamer attacks. Would also give them Demolitions so they all have meltabombs and a demo charge incase the flamers don't do the trick or if something nasty attacks them.

BlkTom wrote:Still not sold on your valk with forward sentry veterans, you could just sit the valk back and take shots until turn 5 and then rush it forwards and cap an objective on turn 5, if its still alive (for that you don't need forward sentries), or you could rush forward early and fight it out with several of the opponents units with no support (again you don't need forward sentries, and you'll die) or 3, you attack the point with several units and leave this one to protect it, (which is fine, its just that you'll need to come out of cover to get into position to use your flamers if you need to defend, again forward sentries is useless). If you put demolitions on the squad you can pie plate termies, then assault tanks and when you're bored flame infantry.

Well, I would prefer not to attempt this maneuver unless the target is pretty isolated. If it's not, I'm pretty much counting on my other units to draw fire from the valkyrie while it waits for an opening, that's part of the reason why it doesn't have any fancy lascannons or hellfury missiles. In most cases I will probably either scout it out to drop them in on turn 1, if the area is reasonably safe, or reserve/outflank to keep them alive.

BlkTom wrote:Could add Grenaders to your Sentries unit to protect them from flamer attacks. Would also give them Demolitions so they all have meltabombs and a demo charge incase the flamers don't do the trick or if something nasty attacks them.

I have considered grenadiers. About the only thing, short of a dedicated assault unit, that could dislodge these guys within reasonable time if I manage to get them in is flamers. Carapace would help immensely in that situation, but to be honest I don't think this maneuver will be reliable enough to warrant another 30pts, especially when I don't face a whole lot of flamers in the first place.

I will probably model them with carapace though.

Almarine wrote:
Well, I would prefer not to attempt this maneuver unless the target is pretty isolated. If it's not, I'm pretty much counting on my other units to draw fire from the valkyrie while it waits for an opening, that's part of the reason why it doesn't have any fancy lascannons or hellfury missiles. In most cases I will probably either scout it out to drop them in on turn 1, if the area is reasonably safe, or reserve/outflank to keep them alive.

Hate to break it to you. The Valk is the biggest model on the table, it will always draw the most fire.

Almarine wrote:
I have considered grenadiers. About the only thing, short of a dedicated assault unit, that could dislodge these guys within reasonable time if I manage to get them in is flamers. Carapace would help immensely in that situation, but to be honest I don't think this maneuver will be reliable enough to warrant another 30pts, especially when I don't face a whole lot of flamers in the first place.

I will probably model them with carapace though.

Putting any more than one doctrine on vet squad goes near #2 of dumb things to do with guard (second only to using Techpriests).

Yeah It wasn't exactly at the top of my options list. Here's what I've got at this point

CCS:MGx4/PF
-bodyguard
-chimera

PCS:GLx4
-chenkov
-chimera
PIS:ML
-chimera
PIS:ML
-chimera
PIS:ML
-chimera

Vets:MGx3/PF
-chimera
Vets:MGx3/PF
-chimera
Vets:FLx3
-valkyrie
-forward sentries

1240pts

I could use some suggestions for those last 260pts. I don't believe I need more scoring units, perhaps some longer range AT weapons or a tank?

A LRBT and 2 scout sentinels, theres your last 260 points.
or 2 hellhound or bane wolf for the same price.

Alternatively, you can pull off Chenkov (I know, you converted the model and want to use him) and then you'd have the pointsfor 2xLRBT which would be even scarier.

Yeah, executioner plus two base Sentinals is 260pts. Base LR and upgraded Sentinals can also be 260pts

Primus Psyker (added to Valk Vets) 70pts
Psyker Battle Squad, +4 Psykers, Chimera, 155pts
2x Bolt Pistols for your Company Commander and or Vet Sarges, 4pts
#2 dumb thing for guard to do ( add Grenadiers), 30pts


.... Or MoO, 30pts
- 259pts

If you ditch the Bodyguard, you could add a Psyker and ditch the bolt pistols for a plasma pistol on a Vet Sarge or your CC.

could always put grenadiers on the other vet squad. rest of your post I think are perfectly good recommendations.

of course you could add another valk and vet squad with melta and still have 30 pts to spare

Thank you! And yeah, there is that option, but he did say he felt like he had enough troops, so I didn't want to suggest more.

Could also go 2 more Vendettas and just use them as gunships, firing all 3 of their TL LCs on armor. I do hate not making use of transports though...

You could then ditch the Chimeras on the other two Vet units and take the 110pts and add on doctrines (And maybe even a 3rd PF).

Of course this might make you want to change your load-outs... but outflanking your Vendettas can allow you to drop your Vets right next to something in 1 turn....

Yeah, 2 vendettas would light up a meched force like it was christmas.

Of course, 2x vendettas is probably the best choice here, as always. The thing is, I don't feel at all like shelling out for another two kits when just one is kind of unwieldy. Call me cheap but for the price of two I could have another army. It would go a long way towards drawing fire from my valkyrie though.

I've decided to drop chenkov. The beast guy is an old model, it's not like i made him for this so whatever. Instead, I've made the PCS into a second objective hog squad, fitted with a vox to ensure they pass their own incoming! order. Also, I've stolen Darkhound's paskterminator idea because it seems like the best thing since flak armour and I want to try it out.

CCS:MGx2/FLx2/PF
-bodyguard
-chimera

PCS:FLx3/vox
-chimera
PIS:ML
-chimera
PIS:ML
-chimera
PIS:ML
-chimera

Vets:MGx3/PF
-chimera
Vets:MGx3/PF
-chimera
Vets:FLx3
-valkyrie
-forward sentries

LRXT
-pask

1390pts

Some new ideas. The CCS is currently a cross between my melta/pf squads and flamer squads. With the bodyguard, my commander is virtually guaranteed a chance to peel the last wound off a monster, or brutalize some meq or whatever he likes. They can also burn out termagants from ruins and such and occupy them with a 2+ cover save. I've yet to decide between this and two other setups:

CCS:MGx1/vox/FLx2/PF+PP......With the PP filling the role of a meltagun, this is an attempt to retain the power of the above (in the list) setup while adding a vox caster mainly for BiD and Incoming!. With BiD, the PP will be comparable to a meltagun against monsters, and perfectly safe to fire. It's not going to be as great against vehicles or meq of course, but you can't have everything.

CCS:MGx3/vox/PF(+PP)....... PP is optional but the idea is an almost guaranteed kill against a vehicle or monster at the cost of cover-ignoring template death. One upshot is that FomT will probably work, but it's still for a maximum of 4 kills

So yeah that's what I'm thinking right now. Remaining points are insufficient for a vendetta anyway so that's one problem solved. Comments on CCS and/or what I should do with 110pts?

MoO will never get to fire here and the psyker squad doesn't fit unless i take the squad at base size. I'd rather not add grenadiers until I'm truly out of other options. I'm hesitant to give powerfists to the PCS and flamer veteran squad since their intended target is, let's face it, light infantry.

What would I use the primaris for in this list, specifically? I'm not at all opposed to using him, in fact he has served me well, but if there is somewhere I could put him to extra good use, I'm not seeing it right now. I mean, at this point I've almost got more s6 shooting than guardsmen, and there's no psyker squad to really synergize with his defensive ability or any really important squad to use it on just for giggles.

CCS should really focus on just doing one thing. Actually ALL guard units should just focus on doing one thing, and then support each other.

not really seeing the point of the vox, especially since you are losing a special weapon to take it, and you probably won't need to use incoming! on that particular squad.

Exterminators are pricey for what they do, 150 pts for one and you can get 2 hydras for the same pts, twice the fire power! And the bane of DE. But if you really want to use it this may be a good way.

The last 110 points could be done with 3 base sentinels, or a second valk (although, yeah the kits are a killer)

Almarine wrote:
Some new ideas. The CCS is currently a cross between my melta/pf squads and flamer squads. With the bodyguard, my commander is virtually guaranteed a chance to peel the last wound off a monster, or brutalize some meq or whatever he likes. They can also burn out termagants from ruins and such and occupy them with a 2+ cover save. I've yet to decide between this and two other setups:

CCS:MGx1/vox/FLx2/PF+PP......With the PP filling the role of a meltagun, this is an attempt to retain the power of the above (in the list) setup while adding a vox caster mainly for BiD and Incoming!. With BiD, the PP will be comparable to a meltagun against monsters, and perfectly safe to fire. It's not going to be as great against vehicles or meq of course, but you can't have everything.

CCS:MGx3/vox/PF(+PP)....... PP is optional but the idea is an almost guaranteed kill against a vehicle or monster at the cost of cover-ignoring template death. One upshot is that FomT will probably work, but it's still for a maximum of 4 kills

So yeah that's what I'm thinking right now. Remaining points are insufficient for a vendetta anyway so that's one problem solved. Comments on CCS and/or what I should do with 110pts?

MoO will never get to fire here and the psyker squad doesn't fit unless i take the squad at base size. I'd rather not add grenadiers until I'm truly out of other options. I'm hesitant to give powerfists to the PCS and flamer veteran squad since their intended target is, let's face it, light infantry.

What would I use the primaris for in this list, specifically? I'm not at all opposed to using him, in fact he has served me well, but if there is somewhere I could put him to extra good use, I'm not seeing it right now. I mean, at this point I've almost got more s6 shooting than guardsmen, and there's no psyker squad to really synergize with his defensive ability or any really important squad to use it on just for giggles.

I see the little use of the Vox allowing you to re-roll Orders for the CCS from the CCS, but it is taking up a special weapon slot (or even a medic). You can't use more than one order on a unit (as I am sure you know this), so there might be a time where your using FomT and burn yourself with the plasma. I know, I know, a minor risk for most, but so is failing a Order to your own CCS. You could go two Meltaguns and two Plasmaguns with the PP. This could allow you to do some damage on BiD and really lay into a unit with FomT (with the rapid fire from the plasma).

The Primaris's use would be Nightshroud to force Leadership checks to even fire on the unit (say, with flamers) and to give that unit of Vets some firepower. But your right, without a cloak he kinda sticks out and the flat leadership rolls without the PBS are not difficult to make. He could be attached to you CCS and do the same thing, plus having a force weapon. The Primaris Lighting Arc still counts as a shooting attack, so both Orders will effect it.

*shrugs* You wanted suggestions and I am giving them to you based on your requests.

Haha, thanks for sticking with me you two, I really appreciate it.

I don't really buy the old "everything should specialize and do one thing and support each other" mantra. I mean it's good advice to give a guy who makes squads like CCS:standard, plasmagun, grenade launcher, vox; or veterans:FL/PG/MG, but I don't think it's a rule to absolutely live by if you know what you're doing. A ccs has enough room for customization to handle two roles, such is my theory in any case. I'm going to take the CCS setup (along with auto-voxes) to the tactics forum, so we don't really have to discuss it further here.

I'm not going to give the CCS or any veterans plasma guns, because I want them free to assault after firing. That is the theme after all. Rugged hardened manly guardsmen with power fists and missile launchers. Besides, say what you want about guardsmen assaulting, it's better than getting assaulted. Sometimes, like when you need more movement to reach the objective, it's downright practical.

For my last 110pts, I think I'll be going with a pair of naked armoured sentinels. They frequently wind up in my mech lists and I already have the models. Scout sentinels would probably work better here but I very much don't feel like trying to remodel them and they usually do good anyway. Hoping they will provide close assault support, screening action and infantry-vs-AV12-walker hilarity. They have multilasers too so that brings me to 10.

Alright guys, this thread has been very helpful to me, it's too bad everyone else seems to have missed it. I'm still open to ideas of course, but I think the battlefield holds the answers to most of my remaining questions.

You are right, battles are the best advise you'll ever get.