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Well, before I buy the batallion (and the 8th Edition rulebook) I'd like to know how well Vampire Counts do in 8th Edition in "normal" games. A few flaws and strengths in the army would be nice, however if their under-powered I'll probably reconsider. Kthx

In my opinion 8th edition VC can still win (just like any army can) it's just a little harder to do so now. VC used to be really powerfull given that pretty much the entire army caused fear and since you could end the game with more units then you started with it ment that VC could win alot of games by outnumbering a foe in combat and causing them to flee. But now fear and terror got nerfed so while still usefull in ways it isn't a game winning rule for the VC anymore.

Vampires themselves can benefit greatly from the common magical items especially when combined with their bloodline abilities. You can have some truely powerfull magic users or you can have very brutal cc specialists. Also something that I've seen done is alot of people spam Wight Kings with GW, they're a cheap and decent hero choice and chances are your army in general would be built around a unit or 2 of Grave Guard. If you search you'll see there is alot of debate about skeleton warriors vs ghouls, ghouls have the better attack but skeleton warriors have access to a banner which is needed to claim objectives. Varghulf and Black Coach are still great units and I've seen a Black Coach upgraded to its full power by turn 2 and it did alot of damage to the enemy.

Anyway in normal games players can deffinitly win with VC but it's the same as every other army in that you have to learn how to use them in general and against specific opponents.

Okay, so befor I make a list, should I upgrade my zombies? I always figured they were like gaunts and could do well without upgrades but then again I'm not for sure.

I woulden't even take zombies personally let alone upgrade them. Now if you create a unit via raise dead or summon undead horde then they might be worth it as a horrible/quick tarpit unit that you're getting alot cheaper then if you bought the unit (zombies are cheap but in this case you're only paying for the spell caster who raises them instead of an entire unit). And of course you could "upgrade" them by having a vampire nearby with the Helm of Commandment and a Corpse Cart with Miasma of Deathly Vigour which would give a really cheap unit either WS7 or 10 depending on what kind of vampire you take and ASF if MoDV is cast.

But there are other units that can benefit from this alot more like Grave Guard with great weapons. If you have a unit of GG and a Vamp Lord caster in a unit behind them with the helm this makes them WS10, S6, always strikes first and their wight blades have killing blow plus you can heal the unit with summon undead horde. Like I said I woulden't really take zombies and the only reason I'd upgrade zombies is if you could raise a unit on an objective within 12" and give them a standard but I'm pretty sure you can't upgrade raised units.

It's good to at least have some zombies on hand for possible raising. I would love to be able to throw out 50 point speed bumps at critical junctures in the game...

I still win a lot of games with VC! I just do it differently in 8th edition (just as said before).

I also agree, never buy zombies....raise them within the game!

No Zombies, Eh? Mind = Blown. Looks like I don't need a corpse cart now....

Why woulden't you need a CC? Didn't you see what I said about Grave Guard?

Take the Corpse Cart!
just raise the zombies instead of 'buying' them in your army list.

Is it worth bringing a magic heavy vampire lord? I've been going back and forth on a fighty or casty vampire lord. Master of the Black Arts, Forbidden Lore and a good arcane item.

-Loki- wrote:Is it worth bringing a magic heavy vampire lord? I've been going back and forth on a fighty or casty vampire lord. Master of the Black Arts, Forbidden Lore and a good arcane item.

Really it is up to your particular taste. I prefer a magic heavy vampire as I want to summon, raise and enhance units as much as possible.

Revenent Reiko wrote:Take the Corpse Cart!
just raise the zombies instead of 'buying' them in your army list.

+1

spagg wrote:

-Loki- wrote:Is it worth bringing a magic heavy vampire lord? I've been going back and forth on a fighty or casty vampire lord. Master of the Black Arts, Forbidden Lore and a good arcane item.

Really it is up to your particular taste. I prefer a magic heavy vampire as I want to summon, raise and enhance units as much as possible.

Yeah it depends on your playstyle, some people like to keep their armies going with vamp thralls and necros while they have a cc lord running aroung ripping off heads and taking names. Others like to have a caster lord who can pretty much handle all the magic on his own while they have lesser cc characters to bost combat. Like spagg said it all depends on your own taste of how you want to do it. But as a note, don't try to make a Vampire Lord who is both a cc monster and magic ace. Choose one and specialize him(or her) for that.

I definitely wasn't going to make a jack of all trades vampire lord. But I'm thinking I'll stick with a melee lord and a couple of lesser magic using vampires to raise skeletons and zombies.

Ok, so take the corpse cart, no zombies bought in list, and skeletons are good......Now, do I have to randomly pick spells for my vampire lord at the beginning of the game or can i just choose which ones i wanna take?

Archon Revoc wrote:Ok, so take the corpse cart, no zombies bought in list, and skeletons are good......Now, do I have to randomly pick spells for my vampire lord at the beginning of the game or can i just choose which ones i wanna take?

Your best option is to take Forbidden Lore and then you get all of the spells from your choice of Lores. There are a few spells you get automatically. Any others or if you dont take Forbidden Lore you have to randomly generate.


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Also, dont forget about Ghouls. They are the best core choice for VC.

Ghouls are a winning unit. I run 40 in 4 ranks of 10, grave guard are also good. Only thing I have found vc struggle with are monsters and offensive magic (there's a lot of it about, and vampires don't really have it) . Consider taking the vampire lore that gives you lore master then choose one of he others rather than going lore of vampires if you make a casting lord. Black coach is also a solid choice, if only to inhibit your opponents casting by sucking up power dice.

Does the blood drinker allow the weilding vampire to go above its starting wounds?

Hmmm.......I think I may like wood elves better. Are Ranged attacks underpowered in 8th ed or should I stick with vampier counts....

Archon Revoc wrote:Hmmm.......I think I may like wood elves better. Are Ranged attacks underpowered in 8th ed or should I stick with vampier counts....

I don't believe ranged attacks are underpowered in 8th, they are just different in every army. I am not a WE player, but I hear they are tough to use with 8th edition. You might want to start another thread about the WE to get some of those players opinions before you make a decision. I have a lot of fun with VC. It all depends on your preferences as far as back story and playing style goes when deciding if a particular army will suit you or not.

Thanks all, soon I will start a new thread on Wood Elves to help me finalize my decision

I have played both armies and have 8k in WE and 5K in VC. I think VC is a much stronger army but i would rather use my WE, they seem to be more fun.

I love Vampire count artwork and minis but i dont like how they're gameplay is similar to tyranids (which i am not the best with) and their lack of range attacks and movement disadvantages are not to my liking.

If you are not good at the whole movement and flanking thing I would avoid WE and go with WOC. WE are all about flanking, and in that case you might want to focus on a less tactically detailed army at first, atleast till you learn the game well.

No, it's not that, it's just i find it hard for the Vampire counts to flank my enemy, not WE. I have no problem with moving my armies, unless they are desined NOT to use hit and run tactics, and even then I find a way to make the best out of it, such as a "leap frog" method of moving up my IG platoons up to the enemies board edge.