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I am not a Tau player but my brother is. I am trying to help him get back into the game, he used to play Dark Angels in mid 3rd edition. Liked the way Tau looked and started buying some. I have very little knowledge about them so I did some reading to put together a list for him. I believe he also has kroot and some stealth suits but from my reading it seems the suits are not effective, and the Kroot don't blend well with this mostly mechanized list. If Ibam mistaken on either of these fronts let me know. I tried to minimize fluff but if you see something inefficient or otherwise please don't hesitate to criticize. Thanks in advance.

-HQ-

Commander (Shas'el) [117]
-Hard-Wired Drone Controller
--Shield Drone x2
-Plasma Rifle
-Missle Pod
-Multi-Tracker

-ELITES-

Crisis Battlesuit Team [124]
-Plasma Rifle x2
-Missile Pod x2
-Multi-Tracker x2

Crisis Battlesuit Team [62]
-Plasma Rifle
-Missile Pod
-Multi-Tracker

Crisis Battlesuit Team [62]
-Plasma Rifle
-Missile Pod
-Multi-Tracker

-TROOPS-

Fire Warrior Team x7 [205]
-Shas'ui
-Bonding Knife
-Devilfish [120]
--Smart Missile System
--Disruption Pods
--Multi-Tracker
--Targeting Array

Fire Warrior Team x7 [85]
-Shas'ui
-Bonding Knife

-FAST ATTACK-

Pathfinder Team x4 [168]
-Devilfish [120]
--Smart Missile System
--Disruption Pods
--Multi-Tracker
--Targeting Array

-HEAVY SUPPORT-

Hammerhead Gunship [175]
-Railgun
-Burst Cannons
-Disruption Pods
-Multi-Tracker
-Targeting Array
-Target Lock

[998]

I assume my brother will want to use the Hammerhead he bought but I'm curious if it might be more effective to run Broadsides instead.

Broadside Battlesuit Team x2 [160]
-Advanced Stabalization System x2

Angel_of_Rust wrote:Crisis Battlesuit Team [124]
-Plasma Rifle x2
-Missile Pod x2
-Multi-Tracker x2

Crisis Battlesuit Team [124]
-Plasma Rifle x2
-Missile Pod x2
-Multi-Tracker x2

Best to fill Elite slots up, instead of clumping suits together, so splitting these 4 into one unit of paired suits and then two singles is better. It splits your fire and makes the suits easier to JSJ to safety and harder to catch in h2h. The extra KP liability is worth it.

Angel_of_Rust wrote:Pathfinder Team 4x12 [168]

They can only come in sizes of 8, and you can only field 3 units, given the 3 Fast Attack slots. Is this a typo?

Angel_of_Rust wrote:Hammerhead Gunship [170]
-Railgun
-Burst Cannons
-Disruption Pods
-Multi-Tracker
-Targeting Array

[993] No idea where to look for spending these 5 points. Probably Target lock on the Hammerhead.

Good idea.

Angel_of_Rust wrote:I assume my brother will want to use the Hammerhead he bought but I'm curious if it might be more effective to run Broadsides instead.

Broadside Battlesuit Team x2 [160]
-Advanced Stabalization System x2

If you/he runs b-sides, then be sure to give them 2 Shield Drones (Team Leader upgrade) and bond, and make it two separate units, as each can them have 2 SDs for ablative wounds, Bonded.

XV88s vs Railhead = At low point levels, the Railhead is better, as it's pie-plate helps ... but we're really talking a 45-55 split on that (my) opinion. It depends on the enemy's composition.

Brothererekose wrote:Best to fill Elite slots up, instead of clumping suits together, so splitting these 4 into one unit of paired suits and then two singles is better. It splits your fire and makes the suits easier to JSJ to safety and harder to catch in h2h. The extra KP liability is worth it.

Makes sense to me, changed.

Brothererekose wrote:They can only come in sizes of 8, and you can only field 3 units, given the 3 Fast Attack slots. Is this a typo?

Kind of. It was 4 pathfinders at 12 a piece. Missed a points cost when I was pruning them for the forum. Fixed.

Brothererekose wrote:If you/he runs b-sides, then be sure to give them 2 Shield Drones (Team Leader upgrade) and bond, and make it two separate units, as each can them have 2 SDs for ablative wounds, Bonded.

I will keep this in mind, though I'm not sure what I would cut for those 60 points of drones, more firewarriors? How small is too small? I run mechdar with a lot of DAVU, do Tau do similar? I was assuming you wanted some shooting out of the firewarriors.

Angel_of_Rust wrote:

Brothererekose wrote:They can only come in sizes of 8, and you can only field 3 units, given the 3 Fast Attack slots. Is this a typo?

Kind of. It was 4 pathfinders at 12 a piece. Missed a points cost when I was pruning them for the forum. Fixed.

Ah, got it. I would proxy some sapre FW models and increase the PF units to 6 guys each. That's a lot for a 1k list, but can probably make shots really count, especially eliminating Cover Saves for Vehicles when the Railguns roar.

Angel_of_Rust wrote:

Brothererekose wrote:If you/he runs b-sides, then be sure to give them 2 Shield Drones (Team Leader upgrade) and bond, and make it two separate units, as each can them have 2 SDs for ablative wounds, Bonded.

I will keep this in mind, though I'm not sure what I would cut for those 60 points of drones, more firewarriors? How small is too small? I run mechdar with a lot of DAVU, do Tau do similar?

Yeah, it's much the same concept/tactic.

Angel_of_Rust wrote: I was assuming you wanted some shooting out of the firewarriors.

Not at low levels. Beefing up on suits is a tau advantage, producing fire power most armies can't match in low point games. So, doing two six-packs of FWs, in their Warfish is good, allowing to buy SDs for the broadsides makes more sense. At 1500+ once the Elite & HQ slots are full of XV8s, then bringing FWs up to a dozen, and then using the FishofFury (sort of) becomes more viable.

Wow, that last sentence is ugly.

As I am wont to do, I disagree with brothererekose regarding shield drones. Tau function best by taking offensive list choices. Shield drones, being purely defensive, offer nothing but an expensive ablative wound. The better route to follow is to take as much fire power as possible, spread throughout as many units as possible, so your opponents can't concentrate fire on you.

I think that principle works doubly so at this low point level, where the odds of running into hordes of lascannons is very low, and where you don't have the points to fudge with anyways.

That said, I've a few suggestions.

First, I recommend your elite suits be TL missile pod + targeting array. That gives you a mobile BS4 autocannon squad for only 53 points per model. I don't like taking fireknives (plasma rifle + missile pod + multi-tracker) in the elite slot because you have to leave them at BS3. That's why I take fireknives in the HQ slot, because there I can give the suits targeting arrays and hard-wired multi-trackers. At this low point level, I would actually eschew fireknives altogether since you can't really afford them and should need them over-much given the point level.

Fire warriors suck. There's no two ways about it. I rarely ever take more than the obligatory single squad of 6 guys. Kroot aren't objectively “good” but they're better than fire warriors because they're cheaper and do more things. To that end, I don't recommend upgrading fire warriors at all, save to give them (free) carbines. I think going with carbines is a smarter choice because it gives the fire warriors more range while they're moving and the pinning is randomly good.

The fast attack slot is tau's “optional” slot, in that there's nothing in it that screams “take me!” loud enough to warrant using the slot in low-point formats like this. Therefore, I recommend dropping the pathfinders entirely. I don't think you need them at this point level, and they're too expensive to run at only 1000 points anyways.

Finally, I always recommend broadsides over hammerheads. I used to run hammerheads all the time, until I finally got broadsides. I made the switch and I've never looked back. The big thing is that you literally get two S10 broadside shots for 5 points less than an upgraded hammerhead. Sure, the hammerhead has the template, but it's only S6 and if you fire the template that means you're not firing your S10 gun. At 1000 points it should be pretty easy for your broadsides to ace opposing vehicles quickly so they can switch to using their SMART Missiles.

Taking into account the foregoing, here's what I recommend:

999/1000

--HQ--

1 Shas'el 73
-TL Missile Pod
-Target Lock

--Elites--

2 Crisis Suits 106
-TL Missile Pod
-Targeting Array

2 Crisis Suits 106
-TL Missile Pod
-Targeting Array

2 Crisis Suits 106
-TL Missile Pod
-Targeting Array

--Troops--

6 Fire Warriors 145
-Carbines
1 Devilfish
-Disruption Pod

10 Kroot Carnivores 70

10 Kroot Carnivores 70

--Heavy Support--

3 Broadside Battlesuits 250
-Advanced Stabilization System x3
-Team Leader
--Target Lock

You can also run three monats (single-unit squads) of broadsides, though I choose not to in order to conserve kill points. Your main weakness is lack of low-AP weaponry. You only have the three broadsides, which will make it rough against BA. But at this level, I think the elite armies will have few enough models that the sheer weight of fire from your S7 guns ought to pull you through.

As previously mentioned, I don't run shield drones because (a) they're inherently defensive and don't contribute to tau actually winning the game, (b) at this point level you can't really afford them, and (c) at this point level you don't really need them since it's doubtful you'll run into a lot of lascannons and the like.

The list has 10 suits (a feat at this point level), 14 BS4 S7 guns, three S10 AP1 TL shots and three troop choices. It even has a tank.

Hope this helps,

Knute

Knute,

I'm trying to recreate your list on Army Builder, and when I do I keep coming up with a total of 926 points and an invalid Shas'el. What other equipment are you giving him to make him "street legal", as a twin-linked missile pod and a hard-wired target lock don't seem to be enough?

Zarry

Knute wrote:First, I recommend your elite suits be TL missile pod + targeting array. That gives you a mobile BS4 autocannon squad for only 53 points per model. I don't like taking fireknives (plasma rifle + missile pod + multi-tracker) in the elite slot because you have to leave them at BS3. That's why I take fireknives in the HQ slot, because there I can give the suits targeting arrays and hard-wired multi-trackers. At this low point level, I would actually eschew fireknives altogether since you can't really afford them and should need them over-much given the point level.

Some of them can work well like that, but if you field them all like that? You're asking for trouble, really, as the plasma gun is still a damn good weapon. And you, like many others, are claiming BS3 is a bad thing... really, it isn't that bad, certainly not worth sacrificing all of your AP2 over. Sure, I can agree with not taking all fireknives, but taking all deathrains is just as bad, really, if not worse... The thing your proposed list severely lacks is ANY means of dealing with TEQs, or even MEQs... need some more balance in there

Fire warriors suck. There's no two ways about it. I rarely ever take more than the obligatory single squad of 6 guys. Kroot aren't objectively “good” but they're better than fire warriors because they're cheaper and do more things. To that end, I don't recommend upgrading fire warriors at all, save to give them (free) carbines. I think going with carbines is a smarter choice because it gives the fire warriors more range while they're moving and the pinning is randomly good.

While we can all agree that fire warriors suck, carbines aren't really the most effective of weapons either you don't want them shooting at all, ideally, just bottled up in a 'fish as little more than an upgrade to make it scoring... if they do fire, you really have to pick your moment and get as much firepower out of them as possible. Pulse Rifles rapid fire does that better... and you don't want your fire warriors running around anyway, surely? They're a bit too soft for that ^^

The fast attack slot is tau's “optional” slot, in that there's nothing in it that screams “take me!” loud enough to warrant using the slot in low-point formats like this. Therefore, I recommend dropping the pathfinders entirely. I don't think you need them at this point level, and they're too expensive to run at only 1000 points anyways.

Pathfinders can be incredibly useful, but yeah I don't think I'd take them at 1k either. Moar guns!

Finally, I always recommend broadsides over hammerheads. I used to run hammerheads all the time, until I finally got broadsides. I made the switch and I've never looked back. The big thing is that you literally get two S10 broadside shots for 5 points less than an upgraded hammerhead. Sure, the hammerhead has the template, but it's only S6 and if you fire the template that means you're not firing your S10 gun. At 1000 points it should be pretty easy for your broadsides to ace opposing vehicles quickly so they can switch to using their SMART Missiles.

Broadsides are extremely nice for the anti-tank, 'tis true... but at 1k are you really going to come up against that many high AV vehicles that you need 2 broadsides? Or 3, as your list has? I only use 2 at 1500, and that's never proved to be too few...


So yeah, to critiquing the OPs list, I'd say dropping the pathfinders should be considered... but your call. Switching a fireknife squad (MP/PR) to a deathrain (TL MP) would likely improve your overall efficiency... but not really necessary. At 1k a BC/MP combo can be useful, as you'll likely be coming up against more hordes and the like... definitely drop the Shas'ui/BK upgrades from your fire warriors, they don't help much anyway. Getting a broadside (preferable) or two (at most, imo) in there may also help.


Edit: LOL and I didn't notice that. Thanks for pointing out, Brothererekose will leave this up here, just in case anyone reads this thread and gets any truly bad ideas from it... wouldn't want that

Zarryiosiad, this thread is 4 months old. And after a quick check, it doesn't appear that Knute has posted in 4 months.

You've committed Thread-O-Mancy. The villagers with torches and pitchforks will be 'rabble-rabbling' for your hide shortly.

Here they come - run for it!