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-This is mostly a rant-

You all know of it, or should, and have probably read it at least once if you haven't already. That page that people tend to quote over and over again, but are they quoting it for the right reasons? Time and time again I find people online or offline that quote it for the big bold text and the end of the page and all I can think is "really"? I know some people do it for humour, but too often I've met actual people who seriously use that line as some kind of excuse to put down people for their play style. It just makes me want to point out that there is a statement right above it that specifically says not to be a with Page 5 and that it is NOT an excuse. Has anyone else run into this kind of thing or do I just happen to run into these people by way of chance?

Well, I have had only positive experiences with players in my FLGS.

A few weeks ago I joined a little sort-of-tournament despite having played only a handfull of Warpack-level games up to that point.

While noone pulled any punches, which was something I would have neither expected nor wanted, everyone was really helpfull and friendly.

PP games are intended to be approached like a game of basketball or chess. There is a win condition and the point of the game is to accomplish it. Any legal move is a move that should be taken. You don't dribble aimlessly around the court to have fun, or try to make pretty looking formations with your chess pieces. You play to win. You accept that your losses are purely because you did something wrong and the other player did something right. That is what page 5 is about.

Either you are running into people who would be a bad sport regardless of system, or you are trying to bring some of the non-PP gaming culture attitudes like "cheese" into PP games and they simply don't like your attitude.

I've honestly never run into someone who tried to use Page 5 to justify dickery. Mind you, our local gaming community is the ultracompetitive sort anyhow (Saint Louis: If we're not being power-gaming douchebags about any sort of geek hobby, we're doing it wrong), but we generally do a good job of policing ourselves for dickheads.

Isn't there an entry on page5 to not use it for dickery?
as in "Page 5 is not an excuse"

Yes, that's exactly it. That is what gets me when people use it as an excuse. Admittedly it's only a few people, but it still drives me up the wall.

There is never an excuse to be a bung-hole in a GAME.... no matter how serious the game may be. Always be a good sport, I think that is the true message of page 5.

Page 5 actually got me to buy the Hordes Mk II book when I saw it in a store, until then I knew next to nothing about Hordes or Warmachine.

I liked the humour of it and I liked the way it tried to sum up what the game was about, aggressive play to win a game. I tend to be a cautious gamer and Page 5 was a warning that this wouldn't be the game to try that, so I thought I'd pick up the book. Since then I've bought a lot of the Warmachine and Hordes books and models and have been doing plenty of reading online about the game, enjoying all of it.

Using Page 5 to act like a dick is just an excuse for some people who like to do things like put others down or laugh in their face. I have no doubt that the disclaimers put in by PP about not acting like an idiot and using Page 5 to justify it were put there because they know full well that some people are ignorant and need a reminder. If those people are in your face, remind them that all you're all doing is playing with little metal figures for fun. Unless you're at a tournament, then you're playing with little metal figures for fun and profit.

The original Prime book's Page 5 was pretty awesome, and we all loved it when we first had a chance to read it(we all started gaming together). We had a good laugh about it, but nobody really took it as a "this is how you're supposed to play the game" catechism. Thankfully I've never yet run into anybody who does take it like that.

I find it to be very true to the game. Turtle and you will lose. Play soft and you will lose. Sometimes you will do everything right and you will lose. Losing is a part of the game and don't get your feelings hurt over it.

I also really like that it says the rules mean what they say.

Page 5 comes down to this: play hard, be a good sport, take risks, and be aggressive.

At no point, do I see Page 5 saying, "cheat and be a richard slap."

12thRonin wrote:I find it to be very true to the game. Turtle and you will lose.

There are the occasional exceptions to this of course, you can see it with a lot of lists from Trollbloods for example, where everything turtles together to gain bonuses. That being said, the turtle does move itself inexorably toward your army with intentions of bad deeds.

That's not a turtle, that's a brick.

Turtles hide at the back and try to shoot or spell you to death.

Bricks walk up and smash you in the face.

Big difference.

This brick is also a turtle.

Just saying

12thRonin wrote:I find it to be very true to the game. Turtle and you will lose. Play soft and you will lose. Sometimes you will do everything right and you will lose. Losing is a part of the game and don't get your feelings hurt over it.

I also really like that it says the rules mean what they say.

I kinda-sorta-maybe turtle when I run low point battleship with karchev + behemoth. I generally wander around tossing mortars until I have knocked off some targets and given myself a point advantage, but then I charge all in for the kill. Seems to have worked pretty well against a wide range of opponents so far.

But that's still playing within Page5.
You are playing aggressively with the army and tactics you have outlined. Its not like your only action in the game is to sit in the back corner. Playing the Karchev gunboat means moving Karchev and being within stricking distance of most armies for retaliation in some sort, and he can be approached easily through terrain.

Page 5 to me means that when you get beaten down by some synergy you did not see, insted of saying "OMG that broken, your cheap" you say "OMG thats broken, well played"

One of the best things about warmachine is the mindset that nothing is broken or cheap, you should not expect your opponent to go easy on you, nor should ou go easy on your opponent.
This of course has nothing to do with sportsmanship, while getting beaten, or beating others you should conduct yourself in a positive manner. That is also page 5.

BryanC wrote:Page 5 to me means that when you get beaten down by some synergy you did not see, insted of saying "OMG that broken, your cheap" you say "OMG thats broken, well played"

One of the best things about warmachine is the mindset that nothing is broken or cheap, you should not expect your opponent to go easy on you, nor should ou go easy on your opponent.
This of course has nothing to do with sportsmanship, while getting beaten, or beating others you should conduct yourself in a positive manner. That is also page 5.

I've realised recently how smart that is on the part of PP to perpetuate the myth that their game is completely balanced. It seems a bit counterproductive to me, especially when constructive threads on improving clearly underpowered/underused units are dismissed as "QQ" or "Doom!".

That said, we only have one guy who seems to buy into the worst parts of Page 5. Of course he buys into it in direct proportion to how much he's winning by. At the very least it's amusing to see him complain about Triumph being able to see stealth as he plays has DJ/Tartarsauce/Thrall list.