Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I thought of something, don't know yet if it's a great idea or if I'm just being slow, I don't think I've seen it before in any case. Compare:

CCS:melta x4
-chimera

CCS:melta x3 + vox
-chimera

I'm sure you see what I'm getting at, but I'll explain anyway. The first unit has more firepower, but with the voxcaster, the second unit is almost certain to pass its BiD test. I'm thinking 3 twin linked meltas has to be enough firepower in near every situation involving shooting at vehicles. 4 twin-linked meltas is obviously better but yeah, once in a while the order fails, in which case 4 regular meltas is (probably?) worse.

This works on other orders too of course. I originally thought of this for a PCS like so:

PCS:FLx3 + vox
-chimera

This unit would use its still considerable flamerpower to clear a terrain objective before themselves occupying it with extreme zeal, that is to say, a 2+ cover save. To ensure they pass their own Incoming! order on the following turn (since they just fired), I gave them a vox.

Is this inventive Y/N?

This is a simmiler problem to whether to take a medic rather than x4 plasma guns as I see it. More firepower or less but more effective. The advantage to the vox is whether you take voxes elsewhere too. If you do then you're gaining favour for taking it. I run my combat CCS with plasma and i've added my medic. Why? The unit is usually mounted in a chimera and usually wipe its targets off the board in a single shooting phase. The main cause of wounds is the overheating rule which cuts down the ammount of firepower I can put out long term. I havn't had chance to see how adding the medic works out but i'm hoping the medic means I can put out less shots but more consistantly as opposed to lots of shots which quickly get less and less. I have a feeling the extra gun will be the better option if i'm honest. The medic costs two plasma guns =/

'Bring it down' does make a big difference to shooting but by adding a vox you only slightly increase to chance of the order been received. For that slight chance you lose a twin-linked melta. I still feel the extra gun is a better call but try it out with the vox.

This is a little bit like the medic vs plasma thing, but it's not quite the same.

For one thing, a vox caster is half the cost of a meltagun.

remember, vox casters only good in a pair. so, your command squad has one, but, the other units need one to to re roll to see if the orders go off.

as far as i know, if you fail the order test to your own command squad, even if you have a vox caster, you dont get the re roll. (commander orders bring it down to his command squad, rolls a 11, that is the end, no re roll).

I think it depend on what you are doing if Vox-Casters or Not. If you are big into the Commands a Vox is compleatly worth it. I run a Creed/Kell list and everyone that can have one gets one. The only 2 that don't get it is my RRs and Destroyer Tank Hunter. With everyone getting to Re-Roll a LD-10 roll my commands almost always work.
On my other Straken "Assault List" he has 4 Flamers and I am planing on having losts of Depp Striking Storm Troopes and Vets on Vals Voxs aret worth it.

I'm going to speak against this tactic, I think it is a bad idea, let me explain why.

First off, I will say that I think voxes can have a use, but they need to exist elsewhere also. They can become especially strong with guard blob squads, for instance, because you can just more reliably count on things happening without a penalty.

A single vox is not so great because, basically, you cannot pass an order to anything that is in a vehicle. 4x meltagun in a chimera is so much stronger than a reliable 3x meltagun on foot. Sure, you can say, that occasionally you will get that chimera popped. It happens. Still, for the times it does not, the four is much better, and the vox is useless (providing you nothing whatsoever) so long as you are in the chimera.

Deceiver wrote:This is a simmiler problem to whether to take a medic rather than x4 plasma guns as I see it. More firepower or less but more effective. The advantage to the vox is whether you take voxes elsewhere too. If you do then you're gaining favour for taking it. I run my combat CCS with plasma and i've added my medic. Why? The unit is usually mounted in a chimera and usually wipe its targets off the board in a single shooting phase. The main cause of wounds is the overheating rule which cuts down the ammount of firepower I can put out long term. I havn't had chance to see how adding the medic works out but i'm hoping the medic means I can put out less shots but more consistantly as opposed to lots of shots which quickly get less and less. I have a feeling the extra gun will be the better option if i'm honest. The medic costs two plasma guns =/

'Bring it down' does make a big difference to shooting but by adding a vox you only slightly increase to chance of the order been received. For that slight chance you lose a twin-linked melta. I still feel the extra gun is a better call but try it out with the vox.

4x plasma guns is always worth it.
Similarly, 4x melta guns is always worth it.

Math Hammer.

BID increases the odds of a hit from 6/9 to 8/9, or a 2/9 increase.

Vox increases the odds of a successful BID order from 5/6 to 35/36, so I'm going to round 35/36 up to 100% and say the Vox completely removes the 1/6 chance of failed BID orders.

Net gain per melta gun is 1/6th (the vox BID increase) of the 2/9th increase from BID. The vox takes 6/9 + (2/9 * 5/6) and increases it to 8/9. The end result is as follows.

Non Vox melta with attempt at BID=46/54
Vox melta with auto success at BID=49/54
Net gain from Vox=3/54th of a hit

It takes 15 melta gun shots before the Vox supplies more hits than 1 additional melta gun shot without a vox.

Stick with the 4th melta gun for anti tank. The real purpose of a Vox is giving orders to leadership 8 squads such as get back in the fight to a squad <50%, or FRFSRF to 30 or so lasguns.

Mmmm... Math hammer looks legit. Thanks for that, schadenfreude.

So for pure melta killing power 4 meltas beats 3+vox. There's still some other orders it might be useful for, mainly incoming! and movemovemove, but I suppose most people prefer a meltagun to making those slightly more reliable. Even if you save 5pts.

So what do you think about it in my flamer PCS?

Units in vehicles can /NOT/ receive orders. So if they are in a Chimera, the Vox is a waste. It is under the order section (pg 29 IG Dex A single friendly non-vehicle unit... ). A CCS in a Chimera can't even give itself a order because it is in a vehicle.

Can't giver orders out of a vehicle, but Chimeras have the Command Vehicle special rule.

Yeeeeah I know that. More often than not, however, my guys get their rides blown apart. Or they disembark, like into a ruin,