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So does Codex: Grey Knights double as Codex: Inquisition? Like, will we never have the long rumoured unified Inquistion book now? Technically, the GK 'dex could make a pure Inquistion force but I don't see many using it for that. Is this it for all your Inquisitioning needs?

We never were going to get a "unified Inquisition book".

GW screwed the pooch on it. They could have done a stand-alone book, or put it in C: IG and made a freaking killing.

But nope.

I'd disagree with you on that. I think that an all inquisition army is quite viable. Especially considering how flexible you can make your units. In fact, I see a hell of a lot of lists on here making heavy use of henchman and inquisitors. On that note, I sincerely doubt that the inquisition will be getting their own book. Everything you need to know is in the Codex: Grey Knights. Why waste the ink making an entire section in the codex for them if they were just going to change most of the rules for a Codex: Inquisition army?

I think they were very thorough with their covering of the inquisition.

I wish they would make a combined one...
If they managed to cut down on the number of codeci they would easily be able to put more work into each one.

Sadly the only way to achieve, imho, a nice portrayal of the inquisition is to expand on the allies rules, which is exactly the opposite of what has happened.

The inquisition powers to requisition almost any force of the imperium is significative... An inquisitor may go around on his own while hunting enemies, but for major engagement he will be at the head of great forces... Henchmen are nice but they hardly represent the powers of the inquisitorial mandate...

Kanluwen wrote:We never were going to get a "unified Inquisition book".

Or, rather, we did get a unified Inquisition book in the form of Codex Grey Knights, which features all three Ordos of the Inquisition and the Ordo Militant in the form of the Knights.

insaniak wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:We never were going to get a "unified Inquisition book".

Or, rather, we did get a unified Inquisition book in the form of Codex Grey Knights, which features all three Ordos of the Inquisition and the Ordo Militant in the form of the Knights.

No Deathwatch=not unified Inquisition book.

Semantics, ahoy!

But I guess you could call that...monstrosity a 'unified Inquisition book'.

Meh, I'd say it's at best a - inappropriate word spelt incorrectly, which rather undermines the point - way to keep the image of collaboration between branches of the inquisition without resorting to the allies rules.


Edited by insaniak.

Kanluwen wrote:No Deathwatch=not unified Inquisition book.

I would think that the presence of the Inquisitors is more relevant to its status as an Inquisition book, personally, but whatever floats your boat.

As I said in another thread a while back, I rather suspect that if Deathwatch do reappear in the game, it will be as an Elite unit in the regular Marine codex. Focusing the Inquisition book on the Grey Knights lets them flesh out the Knights (which have always been more interesting than the Deathwatch anyway) and give the book a more cohesive theme. Adding Deathwatch and Sisters and inducted Guard and Imperial Militia and all the other myriad units that Inquisitors could conceivably call to the field would have just made it a mess.

insaniak wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:No Deathwatch=not unified Inquisition book.

I would think that the presence of the Inquisitors is more relevant to its status as an Inquisition book, personally, but whatever floats your boat.

As I said in another thread a while back, I rather suspect that if Deathwatch do reappear in the game, it will be as an Elite unit in the regular Marine codex. Focusing the Inquisition book on the Grey Knights lets them flesh out the Knights (which have always been more interesting than the Deathwatch anyway) and give the book a more cohesive theme. Adding Deathwatch and Sisters and inducted Guard and Imperial Militia and all the other myriad units that Inquisitors could conceivably call to the field would have just made it a mess.

The Sisters have always been an issue. They're Chambers-Militant(but not). They can refuse orders from the Hereticus if the Ecclesiarchy says so.

But with how the Deathwatch have been fleshed out via the RPG--I'd be very surprised if we see them as simply 'an elite unit' in the Marine book and not as some form of upgrade for every Marine book's units.

How hard is it for them to do a new pdf or White Dwarf article on Deathwatch, honestly?

Sternguard are fine substitutes, I guess. It just seems that they're missing the boat if FF's DeathWatch is making DeathWatch popular again. Or make them add-ons to Grey Knights. Or something!

Kanluwen wrote:The Sisters have always been an issue. They're Chambers-Militant(but not). They can refuse orders from the Hereticus if the Ecclesiarchy says so.

That's the thing, really. The Sisters are far more interesting as an Ecclesiarchal force than as 'that other' Inquisition army. Leaving them out of the new Inquisition codex gives me hope that GW are heading them back in that direction.

But with how the Deathwatch have been fleshed out via the RPG--I'd be very surprised if we see them as simply 'an elite unit' in the Marine book and not as some form of upgrade for every Marine book's units.

The thing is, to make them worthwhile for 40K, they need something to set them aside from other Marine Chapters. What can the Deathwatch do that hasn't already been covered in other Marine books? Is there enough distinctiveness to warrant more than a single Elite unit?


It would be nice to see them available to all Imperial forces, in a similar manner to the early Legion of the Damned rules. But that's awkward to do without duplicating rules or using cross-codex pollination, both of which GW seem to be trying to move away from. So as it is, the option that fits best with the (as I see it) current direction of the game is to just include them as an Ellites option, and leave the fleshing out to the RPG in the same way that the Demiurg were left as a part of the BFG background and Squats as an Epic army without really having any impact on 40K.

kronk wrote:How hard is it for them to do a new pdf or White Dwarf article on Deathwatch, honestly?

Sternguard are fine substitutes, I guess. It just seems that they're missing the boat if FF's DeathWatch is making DeathWatch popular again. Or make them add-ons to Grey Knights. Or something!

According to a rumor posted on BoK (IIRC), the sisters are going to be in a 2 issue WD "codex", with the PDF (the document, not the army ) being available later in the year. So I guess a DeathWatch pdf isn't outside the realms of possibility. Besides it's not like they need models... It's just marines from different chapters, with inquisitors and perhaps one or two special rules but that's it. Imho they haven't done anything yet because they can't find a way to "fill it up" enough to make it stand on its own...

To the mod: that was hardly an inappropriate word, at least where I live...

insaniak wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The Sisters have always been an issue. They're Chambers-Militant(but not). They can refuse orders from the Hereticus if the Ecclesiarchy says so.

That's the thing, really. The Sisters are far more interesting as an Ecclesiarchal force than as 'that other' Inquisition army. Leaving them out of the new Inquisition codex gives me hope that GW are heading them back in that direction.

Definitely true. But at the same time, they pimpslapped a lot of the Grey Knight's flavoring by cramming the Inquisition in and making them somehow the arbitrators of the Inquisition.

But with how the Deathwatch have been fleshed out via the RPG--I'd be very surprised if we see them as simply 'an elite unit' in the Marine book and not as some form of upgrade for every Marine book's units.

The thing is, to make them worthwhile for 40K, they need something to set them aside from other Marine Chapters. What can the Deathwatch do that hasn't already been covered in other Marine books? Is there enough distinctiveness to warrant more than a single Elite unit?

See, but there's the rub. Deathwatch, while being fairly distinctive and their most distinctive formation of course being the Kill-Team?

They could easily bring some kind of "Deathwatch Veteran" upgrade out for the Sergeants of Marine Squads. Give some kind of ability that they can do when facing Xenos, and fwabam. Flavorful and fun!

It would be nice to see them available to all Imperial forces, in a similar manner to the early Legion of the Damned rules. But that's awkward to do without duplicating rules or using cross-codex pollination, both of which GW seem to be trying to move away from. So as it is, the option that fits best with the (as I see it) current direction of the game is to just include them as an Ellites option, and leave the fleshing out to the RPG in the same way that the Demiurg were left as a part of the BFG background and Squats as an Epic army without really having any impact on 40K.

I would love for Deathwatch Kill-Teams to be official options again.

In the meantime, DA Company Veterans are sufficing.

I like DeathWatch too but it seems that Sternguard and Vanguard vets cover their niche.

And yet...they really don't.

They cover what the Deathwatch Kill-Teams used to be, yes.

Yeah honestly beside looking badass and having inquisitorial support, deathwatch doesn't have many unique features... At most I could see them getting preferred enemy and "count as TL" for ranged weapons... That's it, perhaps more customization options in terms of wargear. Hardly worth a codex...

Kanluwen wrote:And yet...they really don't.

They cover what the Deathwatch Kill-Teams used to be, yes.

They're different now?

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:And yet...they really don't.

They cover what the Deathwatch Kill-Teams used to be, yes.

They're different now?

Kill-Teams have always been "different".

That's the whole point. They're a mixture of techniques and tactics blended with skill and experience.

But in terms of the Deathwatch RPG? They've gained a lot of unique weapons and equipment.
Such as a spike that was designed by a member of the Imperial Fists and is rammed home into a fortress wall and left to do its thing for a few turns--then collapses the wall through seismic shenanigans.

Or a weapon dating back to the Heresy that functions much like a Necron's Gauss weapon--except it has the focus spread of a flamethrower.

Kanluwen wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:And yet...they really don't.

They cover what the Deathwatch Kill-Teams used to be, yes.

They're different now?

Kill-Teams have always been "different".

That's the whole point. They're a mixture of techniques and tactics blended with skill and experience.

But in terms of the Deathwatch RPG? They've gained a lot of unique weapons and equipment.
Such as a spike that was designed by a member of the Imperial Fists and is rammed home into a fortress wall and left to do its thing for a few turns--then collapses the wall through seismic shenanigans.

Or a weapon dating back to the Heresy that functions much like a Necron's Gauss weapon--except it has the focus spread of a flamethrower.

That is interesting but it can't really work on the scale of 40k sadly... It's too much for a unit that wants to be included in other codexes and it's still not enough to justify a codex

Well, besides Deathwatch The Ordo Xenos is underseved. Jokearo are back but there's probably other alien allies they could use.
For God's sake there's only 1,000 Grey Knights the bulk of the Inquisition's fighting is done by Inquisitorial Stormtroopers and requisitioned IG and Space Marines. Maybe they need their own book less than they need the ability to attach Inquisitors to other armies. I got an Inquisitor all painted up for my IG, now what am I going to do with him?

gpfunk wrote:I'd disagree with you on that. I think that an all inquisition army is quite viable. Especially considering how flexible you can make your units. In fact, I see a hell of a lot of lists on here making heavy use of henchman and inquisitors. On that note, I sincerely doubt that the inquisition will be getting their own book. Everything you need to know is in the Codex: Grey Knights. Why waste the ink making an entire section in the codex for them if they were just going to change most of the rules for a Codex: Inquisition army?

I think they were very thorough with their covering of the inquisition.

Really? you have to take a specific HQ unit to field an inquisitor army, its pathetic. It also makes no sence to have the other Ordo inquisitors in the codex.

GW should have made codex grey knight about just the grey knights with ordo malleus support, then released codex sisters of battle allowing a combined codex for the whole of the inquisition with the ability to field troop chamber militants

BluntmanDC wrote:

gpfunk wrote:I'd disagree with you on that. I think that an all inquisition army is quite viable. Especially considering how flexible you can make your units. In fact, I see a hell of a lot of lists on here making heavy use of henchman and inquisitors. On that note, I sincerely doubt that the inquisition will be getting their own book. Everything you need to know is in the Codex: Grey Knights. Why waste the ink making an entire section in the codex for them if they were just going to change most of the rules for a Codex: Inquisition army?

I think they were very thorough with their covering of the inquisition.

Really? you have to take a specific HQ unit to field an inquisitor army, its pathetic. It also makes no sence to have the other Ordo inquisitors in the codex.

GW should have made codex grey knight about just the grey knights with ordo malleus support, then released codex sisters of battle allowing a combined codex for the whole of the inquisition with the ability to field troop chamber militants

Codex: GK makes it clear that the GKs aren't the chamber militant of the Ordo Malleus but the entire Inquisition. Not sure I buy an Ordo Sepulturum Inquisitor requisitioning Grey Knights but there ya go.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

gpfunk wrote:I'd disagree with you on that. I think that an all inquisition army is quite viable. Especially considering how flexible you can make your units. In fact, I see a hell of a lot of lists on here making heavy use of henchman and inquisitors. On that note, I sincerely doubt that the inquisition will be getting their own book. Everything you need to know is in the Codex: Grey Knights. Why waste the ink making an entire section in the codex for them if they were just going to change most of the rules for a Codex: Inquisition army?

I think they were very thorough with their covering of the inquisition.

Really? you have to take a specific HQ unit to field an inquisitor army, its pathetic. It also makes no sence to have the other Ordo inquisitors in the codex.

GW should have made codex grey knight about just the grey knights with ordo malleus support, then released codex sisters of battle allowing a combined codex for the whole of the inquisition with the ability to field troop chamber militants

Codex: GK makes it clear that the GKs aren't the chamber militant of the Ordo Malleus but the entire Inquisition. Not sure I buy an Ordo Sepulturum Inquisitor requisitioning Grey Knights but there ya go.

Another reason why i ranted at the GW employee for 5 minutes after he tried to sell it to me

KamikazeCanuck wrote:So does Codex: Grey Knights double as Codex: Inquisition? Like, will we never have the long rumoured unified Inquistion book now? Technically, the GK 'dex could make a pure Inquistion force but I don't see many using it for that. Is this it for all your Inquisitioning needs?

Uh, no, it counts as Codex: Grey Knights...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BluntmanDC wrote:Another reason why i ranted at the GW employee for 5 minutes after he tried to sell it to me

And people wonder why employees of hobby stores and Games Workshop act the way they do. If I were ranted at for something like this I'd be a bit detached from service, too...

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Codex: GK makes it clear that the GKs aren't the chamber militant of the Ordo Malleus but the entire Inquisition. Not sure I buy an Ordo Sepulturum Inquisitor requisitioning Grey Knights but there ya go.

I can buy an Ordo Sepulturum Inquisitor requisitioning Grey Knights. The whole plague zombie thing is a daemonic side-effect.

Kanluwen wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Codex: GK makes it clear that the GKs aren't the chamber militant of the Ordo Malleus but the entire Inquisition. Not sure I buy an Ordo Sepulturum Inquisitor requisitioning Grey Knights but there ya go.

I can buy an Ordo Sepulturum Inquisitor requisitioning Grey Knights. The whole plague zombie thing is a daemonic side-effect.

Well yeah, everyone wants a squad of Grey Knights backing them up (well maybe not since you have to be mind-wiped afterwards) but I don't see them having the political clout to requistion them.
Another interesting Ordo is Ordo Sicarius: Assassin-Inquisitors!