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I've been recently mulling over the idea of including an extensively converted Rough Rider squad into my growing Praetorian IG force and found myself wondering if it would be worth the effort to take them.
While I'm in no way a "competitive" gamer ( not big on tourneys and such),and tend to play for fun,I do at least try to include units in my armies that will at least make a good showing on the field,and I'm a bit unsure about Rough Riders as I've heard some negative feedback about them.
Now,theme wise,I love the idea of Praetorians mounted on horse back charging into the fray...but I'm hesitant to begin the project if the unit itself is simply going to be a total waste of points.
So,my question is,in friendly (yet borderline competitive) games...are Rough Riders worth taking?
I can see their application as fast moving tank (vehicle) hunters,as well as anti-troop...but honestly don't have enough experiance with IG to make the call.

Take them cheap and don't get the Mogul.
AFAIK that's the best way to get them...

Indeed, take them cheap and use them as a counter charge. They're weak, and they likely won't survive the attacks back, so don't charge anything with higher Initiative with you, and don't waste any points giving them fancy guns.

What the above posts are saying is they are trash! Any thing you have to remark on saying "take them cheap because they won't make it" isn't worth taking anyway. As Guard we have so many better options for throw away units than rough rider. I would go so far as to say that rough Riders are the only unit in the Imp Guard codex that they drop'd the ball on. They needed more survivability because as it stands they are just expensive guards men with str 5 (only once and on the charge) P weapons, and chances are good they'll get shot to pieces or simply won't kill enough on the charge to make their points cost. Rough riders used to have a bionics save which did help, over all they have never been a real attractive unit.

I have faced my friends rough rider calvary in two different games.

Both times I saw them, I laughed.

Both times they charged my tanks and popped them, I cursed.

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, feth YOUR HORSEMEN!

However, after they pop a tank, they die very quickly. Even a 5-man tactical squad can take them out. They're one-hit wonders since their lances only work once per game. In a fun game, sure. Semi-Competitive? Probably not, but they will surprise people. I hate to give advice on what people should spend their money on when I don't play that codex, though. In my very limited experience, they more than made their points back.

Commissar Rant wrote:As Guard we have so many better options for throw away units than rough rider.

Can't quite agree here. Rough riders are cheap as dirt, and equally fast if you're assaulting. With a maximum (quite feasible with a passed order) assault range of 24" and the potential to cripple a marine or terminator squad in one round of combat, I would say a basic squad is perhaps one of the best throwaway units available. And they have free krak grenades.

Although It's too bad we can't give horses to priests because they do depend on getting their hits in.

They are cheap.

They can move/charge a great distance.

When they charge they have power weapons, strength 5 and initiative 5.

what on earth is not to like?

I use at least one squad of them in most games and find they always pay for themselves.

couldnt agree more with above post.

Almarine wrote:

Can't quite agree here. Rough riders are cheap as dirt, and equally fast if you're assaulting. With a maximum (quite feasible with a passed order) assault range of 24" and the potential to cripple a marine or terminator squad in one round of combat, I would say a basic squad is perhaps one of the best throwaway units available. And they have free krak grenades.

Although It's too bad we can't give horses to priests because they do depend on getting their hits in.

Rough riders are cheap.... like the rest of the stuff we have. They are fast if assaulting but unless you're going against powerfist termy squads you're not going to impress anyone. And yeah they might kill a tank but we are guard, thats what we do with almost everything! I've never had rough riders do anything that looked like "well". If you are going to throw stuff away take Conscripts! They will atleast be good enough to slow the enemy down before being cut to pieces.

Hmm, bit to consider still.
Overall I figured Rough Riders to be "throw away" squad,but thought that perhaps a unit armed with a few Meltas might be worth taking for popping Tanks.
Astheticly I'm still very drawn to the idea as it really fits the theme I'm going after...but as I said it would be a pretty large investment ( money and time wise) to convert a unit that is going to die rather quickly...
...Decisions ,decisions...

Rough Riders aren't the no-brainer that they were in 4th edition, both because of changes to the game, and other fast attack options in the current guard codex but they're still a pretty decent unit option. They have one job, and one job only that very few other things in the Codex can do - kill things with armor saves in close combat. They serve very well as counter assault units, or doing things like slaughtering tac squads off of objectives.

I have had great succsess using them with Creed/Kell and "For the Honor of Cadia". They crush anyone they hit and then get shot up and Run off the Board even with the Creed/Kell LD10
I am thinking of using the "GREEEEEEED!" special rule with them to get them in to a rear area.

Commissar Rant wrote:Rough riders are cheap.... like the rest of the stuff we have. They are fast if assaulting but unless you're going against powerfist termy squads you're not going to impress anyone. And yeah they might kill a tank but we are guard, thats what we do with almost everything! I've never had rough riders do anything that looked like "well". If you are going to throw stuff away take Conscripts! They will atleast be good enough to slow the enemy down before being cut to pieces.

Sorry but I'm still not following. Rough riders are I5 on the charge, short of HQs and chaos marked units, they will strike before virtually any marine. I guess you mean to say storm shields will be a problem, but frankly if that were fair judgment then we'd have no good options.

As for conscripts, they are just awful. Even if they cost the same, they would not be comparable, which they don't because a conscript blob needs support to even exist. Not to mention most people will pick 5 models over 20.

FITZZ wrote: Hmm, bit to consider still.
Overall I figured Rough Riders to be "throw away" squad,but thought that perhaps a unit armed with a few Meltas might be worth taking for popping Tanks.
Astheticly I'm still very drawn to the idea as it really fits the theme I'm going after...but as I said it would be a pretty large investment ( money and time wise) to convert a unit that is going to die rather quickly...
...Decisions ,decisions...

As said above, I would think long and hard before giving meltas to rough riders. They take them in place of their lances, they can't fire and run in the same turn, and if you're not going to assault then the melta isn't really any more mobile than on a PCS. Also consider the multitude of other places in an IG army to put melta, and the fact that they come with krak grenades that don't hamper assault movement - against a stationary vehicle even 5 guys can be death.

Might-as-well-Edit:

Anpu42 wrote:I have had great succsess using them with Creed/Kell and "For the Honor of Cadia". They crush anyone they hit and then get shot up and Run off the Board even with the Creed/Kell LD10
I am thinking of using the "GREEEEEEED!" special rule with them to get them in to a rear area.

Creed's order should not affect them much, the lances strike at fixed S and I so furious charge does nothing in their first assault and if there's something left to strike back fearless usually doesn't matter a whole lot on rough riders.

And Creed can't outflank cavalry units, only infantry or vehicles.

I don't personaly think they can be good only as a 1 Shot wonder. If I get the chance I am going to Try them in the Outflanking Skermisher role.
I run a 10 model Squad with a Pair of Grenade Launchers, so after they Pop a Unit I can have them Flank and Harras, but I have not got the Oprotunity yet they compeat with my other 3-4 armies.

Commissar Rant wrote:What the above posts are saying is they are trash! Any thing you have to remark on saying "take them cheap because they won't make it" isn't worth taking anyway. As Guard we have so many better options for throw away units than rough rider. I would go so far as to say that rough Riders are the only unit in the Imp Guard codex that they drop'd the ball on. They needed more survivability because as it stands they are just expensive guards men with str 5 (only once and on the charge) P weapons, and chances are good they'll get shot to pieces or simply won't kill enough on the charge to make their points cost. Rough riders used to have a bionics save which did help, over all they have never been a real attractive unit.

There are plenty of suicide units that are worth taking...
Marbo
Stormtroopers
Chaos terminators
Wolf Scouts (Can be suicide units)
To name a few notable ones.
They all work on the principle of killing something more expensive than themselves which is why you take them cheap.

I've found that Rough Riders (well I've been using Death Riders but they're essentially the same) are great for clearing MEQ squads in cover off objectives. Keep the cavalry near an infantry squad for cover, then abuse that 12" charge to knock those marines out.

First off: Creed can not make rough riders outflank. Such a common mistake I thought I needed to repeat what Almarine said incase anyone missed it.

My expeririences with them have been fair to positive. I have used a five man squad but find them rather lacking in the hitting and staying power department. I think that an upgrade to ten men would help them out.

I tend to either keep them in reserve or advance them behind a chimera wall out of LOS. When they come out of reserve they can hit almost any unit on your side of the table. If you keep them behind three or four chimeras they are hard to spot and get cover if they are; they can then counter charge anything attacking the chimeras.

Avoid special weapons altogether. Losing the lances is just too big an issue, they are the reason to buy the unit in the first place. Also, with a 12" charge range you will not find meltaguns that useful, as you rarely get within 6". Krak grenades are good enough at taking out most tanks anyway.

So, in conclusion, they are not a great unit but you can use them to give a nasty sting to MEQs. This is especially true to things like blood angels that are in your face with FnP, as they can charge them from reserve and ignore the FnP.

Trickstick wrote:
My experiences with them have been fair to positive. I have used a five man squad but find them rather lacking in the hitting and staying power department. I think that an upgrade to ten men would help them out.

The thing about their hitting power is, they are basically always going to need 4s to hit, which makes them susceptible to whiffing in low numbers. Taking more is one solution, but you want to be able to hide them easily. Personally I think 5 is good enough, because although you can't know if they're going to gut the meq squad or not, they're still a serious threat since the marine player can't know either.

I believe I'll attempt using a small squad sans Meltas..
Thiis will allow me the modeling/conversion/theme oppertunity I want without sinking a ton of either points or cash.
As I don't play at the uber-competitive level,a small squad will not only give my army the "look" I'm after,but,given what some of you guys have posted,will also be semi-competitive if utilized properly.

I'm not saying don't take them... especially if its a "theme" army. Just don't expect them to do well 9 times out of 10. I am collecting the Krieg models from FW and their Rough Riders look amazing and I'd like to field them, but I can't seem them doing well enough for me to put the money/time into them.

Rough riders are a probably the 4th best unit you can take out of the Fast attack slot (Vendetta, Valk, Hellhound).

That said, you have to use them properly. They are a suicide unit, sure, but if you remember to hit and run them, you can often get away with rearing back and attacking the same squad twice. They work best with other assaulting units as a hammer to an anvil. The initial charge softens them up for the crushing blow of the power blob or Ogryn squad.

Also, if you want cheap Praetorian type Calvary, check out Perry Miniatures Napoleonic Hussars. They're about 2 mm smaller than rough riders, but still fit very well size wise.

Commissar Rant wrote: Just don't expect them to do well 9 times out of 10.

Exactly. Don't do something stupid with them, like throwing them into a pack of Howling Banshees, and you should be seeing good results 7 times out of 10. Maybe 8.

Always choose style over substance for a themed army, (in moderation.) Use them carefully. When I have used them they get gun downed standing in the blood of their vanquished foes. They also seem to have the benefit of getting ignored, or causing panic. Plus if you are doing a lot of converting, you can give them molotov cocktails for krak grenades. Little flame topped bottle of amasac hanging from a thin wire in one hand.

Trickstick wrote:First off: Creed can not make rough riders outflank. Such a common mistake I thought I needed to repeat what Almarine said incase anyone missed it.

I am sorry: I was talking about the Tactic of outflanking your opponenet buy going around the Flank of your opponent,not the Rule "Outflank".

on the side note there I did not think there was any restriction on the "CREEEED!!!" rule.

As other posters here have said, they pack a surprising punch for their points worth.

True, they are a one hit wonder, but when they are taking out assualt units quadruple their points worth in that crucial first hit then they look very attractive.

If I managed not to get them shot to pieces then they always worked magnificently against Space Marine players when I used Tallarn. And I can't forget the time where 3 of them took out a warboss and half the Nob retinue.