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This is a somewhat unusual list, it is a lot less models than I am used to using with guard (usually I will have over 100) and follows a slightly different tact. It is combining units I have had some success with in the past, but often don't mesh well with standard armies. So I want to make a list where the compliment each other.

The basic concept i that the opponent has no where to hide, cover is useless, fast is useless, turbo is useless. It is about leaving the opponent on the back foot with nothing to do but run straight onto the waiting guns.

1500 pts

HQ

CCS, OotF 195
2PG, 2MG, Commander w PP (usually I would use 4PG, but I think this unit is more support in this list so is better with a mix)
Chimera, ML, HF

TROOPS

Platoon 230
PCS, 4*flamer
3x Infantry Squad, AC

Veterans 200
3*PG, Demolitions Doctrine (not sure about this load out)
Chimera, ML, HF

Veterans 185
3*MG, Demolitions Doctrine
Chimera, ML, HF

FAST ATTACK

2x Hellhound, HF 260 (not squadroned)

HEAVY

2x Colossus, HF (not squadroned) 280

2x Hydra, HF (squadroned) 150


Now, I don't really like to plan battle tactics too much ahead of time as things never really go according to plan. but the general idea is to send the HH up one flank targeting units in cover and clearing a flank which can be used to guard my chimeras on there way up the board. the colossus can cause some real panic and become targets which should help my advancing units. The hydras are there to make fast not as great an option.

As I said I usually play infantry heavy lists (over 100 models) with LRBT support, so this is a new direction for me, any thoughts on how to make it better at what it does will be appreciated.

I would have put at least one commissar in your infantry blob with power weapons where possible along with some special weapons.

Also, the entire unit will be firing at the same thing, mixing weapons wouldn't be a good idea on your CCS. Although, PGs and MGs MIGHT actually be a little viable.

I find that your Colossi would be very expensive distractions but will easily be handled by deep strikers or outflankers. Just bear that in mind.

L_Dawg wrote:I would have put at least one commissar in your infantry blob with power weapons where possible along with some special weapons.

Was considering that, but I'm not going for infantry blob here, they only really work well if you have a few of them, so I would rather spend the points somewhere else. Also, blobbing or not of the infantry will be dependent on the opponent and mission, I don't feel gearing these guys up too much will add any tangible benefit in the current list. However, if there is a good argument for it I might consider doing so.

L_Dawg wrote:Also, the entire unit will be firing at the same thing, mixing weapons wouldn't be a good idea on your CCS. Although, PGs and MGs MIGHT actually be a little viable.

I am very much an advocate of the 'all the same special weapon' mantra, but in this case, due to the mission they will be undertaking I thought of mixing them. However, I think I will need to play and see how it works, if, over several games I end up using them for one particular task I will change them up

L_Dawg wrote:I find that your Colossi would be very expensive distractions but will easily be handled by deep strikers or outflankers. Just bear that in mind.

They are more than just a distraction, they can actually do some major damage (used them on several occasions), but I expect because of this they will become targets. I am anticipating drop and flank, (reason for taking the OotF), they will also be placed in a reasonably safe location, and I will likely have units to respond to any flankers/deep strikers. However, the attempt to bring them down should give my forward units a little breathing room.

People have found that 10 man infantry squads get easily wiped out if you don't blob them. You give off a few more killpoints that way too.

I understand the OotF idea but Space Marines can drop pod assault on their first turn. They'll probably drop in a melta dred/ironclad or Sternguard with combi-meltas. That's a Colossi or 2 downed before you can even use them. I'm still not sold on them so much.

L_Dawg wrote:

I understand the OotF idea but Space Marines can drop pod assault on their first turn. They'll probably drop in a melta dred/ironclad or Sternguard with combi-meltas. That's a Colossi or 2 downed before you can even use them. I'm still not sold on them so much.

Plus they can Combat Squad Sternguard in said drop pod to be able to nuke 2 targets (it is a special rule for the drop pods). One tactic I have thought of is placing infantry around your Colossi to form a physical barrier. This should force drop pods to drift further away than 6", thus putting them outside of melta range. Two ten man squads with meltas (or just naked) using cover, table edge, ect to extra the coverage, say 4" from the vehicles, just keep the Colossi 6" apart. The thought behind it is to not allow space for the drop pod to land and to force it outside of 6" range. Maybe you can do this with the AC squads... I just don't know where you can get the 100-110 points from to pay for it otherwise, so will just suggest this as a tactic.

I like the Demolitions because the Charge is awesome as well as giving everyone meltabombs (so hopefully one of them will hit with it!). But it is such a close ranged load-out.

Good luck with the build!

The way I handle it is I just take multiples of everything, if there dropping in dreds just sit a melta unit next door to you artillery, if its stern just spred out your units. Ether way a SM drop pod army is going to be far smaller then you any how and its not your artillery that’s going to keep you alive its your vets. And if they are running both ground and drop army then let them eat something, just take 2 of it.

BlkTom wrote:

L_Dawg wrote:

I understand the OotF idea but Space Marines can drop pod assault on their first turn. They'll probably drop in a melta dred/ironclad or Sternguard with combi-meltas. That's a Colossi or 2 downed before you can even use them. I'm still not sold on them so much.

Plus they can Combat Squad Sternguard in said drop pod to be able to nuke 2 targets (it is a special rule for the drop pods). One tactic I have thought of is placing infantry around your Colossi to form a physical barrier. This should force drop pods to drift further away than 6", thus putting them outside of melta range. Two ten man squads with meltas (or just naked) using cover, table edge, ect to extra the coverage, say 4" from the vehicles, just keep the Colossi 6" apart. The thought behind it is to not allow space for the drop pod to land and to force it outside of 6" range. Maybe you can do this with the AC squads... I just don't know where you can get the 100-110 points from to pay for it otherwise, so will just suggest this as a tactic.

I like the Demolitions because the Charge is awesome as well as giving everyone meltabombs (so hopefully one of them will hit with it!). But it is such a close ranged load-out.

Good luck with the build!

Hmm... ok, thanks, this is sort of idea I was looking for, haven't played against a full drop army before, but yes, have had them come down on my back line before and eat the artillery. like the idea of physically guarding the tanks with the squads, might give it a go, if I push them up against terrain I can get even more coverage. If I drop the OotF I can get 30 pts to outfit them with meltaguns as well.

Yes, I thought demolitions would be a great way to threaten power units like termies, and cause a good dose of surprise hurt on main assault units. Plus meltaguns are already a close load out.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm going to build this and see what happens, on paper it looks scary, but you never know until it hits the table.

I'm not entirely sure about your doctrines either. Unless you really really want the demo charge, 30 points is a whole lot of points to pay for 10 melta bombs which you shouldn't need because you have 3 meltaguns.

If you dropped all of that along with the OotF you'll have enough points for another infantry squad, commissars with power weapons, a heavy weapon squad with missile launchers, Marbo and Ratlings.

I know, I'm actually not sure about the doctrines myself. though I figure it is the cheapest way to get a demo charge, the other method is to pay for a special weapons team. Although anything that adds so much to the unit cost I don't like so it feels strange to take the upgrade.

Dropping the doctrines and OotF would net me 90 points, though I would really need something worth while to spend it on. I'm not sure if pw blobs would help, however I'm sure a commissar would. ML HWT is a possibility. Marbo might fit well with this force, though I've never seen anyone have much success with Ratlings. I'll think it over for the night.

I'm really feeling your CCS loadout, it's got nearly all the killyness of 4xPG but with melta capacity and for the same price, definitely try it out.

Things I would look at finding points for:
-chimera for PCS
-hull MMs for hellhounds (unless you prefer HF)
-chimeras for line squads

Things I'm not feeling:
-plasma demolitions (I would give them meltas or drop demo)
-50/50 division of plasma/melta vets with only 2 units total
-officer of the fleet (unless you face primarily lots of reserves and DE, he's just 30pts of bad manners)
-double colossus (don't think you'll need both, they're kinda niched)

Almarine wrote:I'm really feeling your CCS loadout, it's got nearly all the killyness of 4xPG but with melta capacity and for the same price, definitely try it out.

Things I would look at finding points for:
-chimera for PCS
-hull MMs for hellhounds (unless you prefer HF)
-chimeras for line squads

Things I'm not feeling:
-plasma demolitions (I would give them meltas or drop demo)
-50/50 division of plasma/melta vets with only 2 units total
-officer of the fleet (unless you face primarily lots of reserves and DE, he's just 30pts of bad manners)
-double colossus (don't think you'll need both, they're kinda niched)

For the CCS I always use 4PG but I have been finding that sometimes I need them to have a little more tank killing ability so I want to try this loadout. Actually, because of the extra strength on the MG the effectiveness against targets such as MC's is reduced only slightly, probably not even enough to notice over a single game.

- hmm .... Chimera for PCS, Hull MMs for HH, its an idea, I'll see if this fits my plans for this force (I think it will), am also considering changing one HH to a Banewolf, but then I lose range on the gun.
- I might end up dropping Demolitions altogether, I love the charge but it just seems to be eating points.
- My idea was to have the CCS support one of the two vet units, but I might just change them both to melta vets
- OotF is being dropped
- I like to take doubles of whatever I can, besides, the colossus are somewhat a center of this force. I could replace one with a medusa but I don't like the short range on the ordinance, also I find the Min short range on basilisks to be quite restricting, so I won't take that. Perhaps switch one out for a Manticore?

The basic concept i that the opponent has no where to hide, cover is useless, fast is useless, turbo is useless. It is about leaving the opponent on the back foot with nothing to do but run straight onto the waiting guns.

I think as long as you keep this as your focus and resist the urge to turn into a proto-typical IG format, you will do fine. I /like/ the OotF conceptually, and it fits into the concept of this list... even though it doesn't fit in with normal stanard lists because it is sub optimal. For them, it is a perk, for you, a theme.

Plasma-Demo makes you shooty against tougher units (and a 24" range against AV 11-12 and glance on 13s), give you the demo charge for hoard, and meltabombs for walkers/vehicles. It really is a solid unit because you have to be within 6" anyways to get the meltagun off... why not just charge then...?

I honestly feel these units might be better off with your list /out/ of a Chimera... hell, with the extra 55pts, add camo-cloaks and sit them in cover near your artilery or add Grenadiers and foot slog it. I know two doctrines is normally a bad thing, but I think it might work in this format. Heck, make the other Vet squad a plasma unit (+15pts), add Grenadiers or Sentries (+30pts) and drop their Chimera (+10pts!), keep your CCS in a chimera screened by the two vet squads and you would have 35pts extra to give your Platoon squads a meltagun (or one a plasma and 2 meltas), or even pay for a MoO or a Commissar. Personally, I would choose Grenadiers over Sentries, since your actually moving forward with these units to engage other units. 175pt units... I know... kinda expensive. But they move as fast as your Chimeras, are alittle more chunchy to small arms, but now you can actually get an armor save against those bolters and shuriken cataplults! Also, look at the bright side! You don't have to worry about all of them dying when your Chimera gets blown up!

Hope it gives you some food for thought.

BlkTom wrote:

The basic concept i that the opponent has no where to hide, cover is useless, fast is useless, turbo is useless. It is about leaving the opponent on the back foot with nothing to do but run straight onto the waiting guns.

I think as long as you keep this as your focus and resist the urge to turn into a proto-typical IG format, you will do fine. I /like/ the OotF conceptually, and it fits into the concept of this list... even though it doesn't fit in with normal stanard lists because it is sub optimal. For them, it is a perk, for you, a theme.

Plasma-Demo makes you shooty against tougher units (and a 24" range against AV 11-12 and glance on 13s), give you the demo charge for hoard, and meltabombs for walkers/vehicles. It really is a solid unit because you have to be within 6" anyways to get the meltagun off... why not just charge then...?

I honestly feel these units might be better off with your list /out/ of a Chimera... hell, with the extra 55pts, give them camo-cloaks and sit them in cover near your artilery or give them Grenadiers and foot slog it. Heck, make the other a plasma unit and drop their Chimera, keep your CCS in a chimera screened by the two vet squads and you would have 35pts extra to give your 3 AC squads a Meltagun, 2 melta and a plasma, or even throw a Commissar somewhere.

Hope it gives you some food for thought.

I hear ya, this is more of a theme list, but I still like to play things lean.

Did think about taking them out of the Chimeras, but with meltas and demo charge it really reduces there usefulness to do so, I could put them all plasma, change the doctrine to forward sentries (I won't take more than one doctrine) and give them AC, this would still fit my theme quite well, however, then I lose melta capability, which I suppose I could replace with full melltas on the CCS and multimelta on the HH. Also I lose 2 tanks, unless I take another one for the gun line? Either way I'm going to end up with a weakness, but that might be ok, since I'm not playing this list competitively ... yet ...

Editied my post as you were typing your responce....

Regarding foot plasma vets:

Harker

Over a vet squad with sentries, he's 20pts for infiltrate and move through cover and he brings his own HB. I've used this squad to good effectiveness, but I'd drop the demo.