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Just had a friend ask - What is the best layout for BA tactical marines?

Any ideas?

I know his army build is mostly going to be focused around Storm Ravens and DoA build (From what he has said up to now) if that helps.

If its DOA, tell him to scrap useing tacs.

However, if he really wants to, the PowerFist/Flamer/Plasma Cannon build works well. As long as you are running razorbacks. The flamer can be switched to a melta gun for more AT firepower.

Well, I just asked him what his intent for them was, he said an objective sitter.

So, with that logic in mind, 10 man TAC squad with power fist (Sergeant), flamer, and plasma cannon all in a rhino?


Though that does bring up the question, does the plasma cannon still explode the dude if he is in the rhino? (I'm guessing yes)

Try a razorback.

Combat squad, the sergeant and flamer go in the razorback and the plasmacannon sits on the objective. Give the razorback your weapon of choice and you can camp with the 10 man squad or ran around with 2 combat squads.

I would tell your friend not to use them. If he really wants a unit of objective sitters, 5 Scouts with Snipers, a Missile Launcher, and Camo Cloaks is cheaper and better at their role. They can go to ground for a 2++ cover save.

Personally I like the Missle Launcher better than then Plasma Cannon. It's cheaper, longer range and does not explode.. plus it's better at killing armor.

I would spend the points on the Melta gun or Plasma gun over the flamer. ( Just personal preferance)

And if the unit is designed to sit and hold, then no fist on the Sarg. Maybe a Power Sword, but not the fist.

Tacticals do not have a place in a BA army.
I'd go for Assault Marines. They can get 2 special weapons and get a discount when riding in a transport.

Of course Tactical Marines has a place in a BA army. A flamer and 8 rapid firing bolters do wonders against squishy, high initiative targets.

I've been playing against DE for a while and I wouldn't want to charge Assault Marines into a squad of DE Witches.

But to rapid fire they go down as a prom queen on the first date.

Machnarl wrote:Of course Tactical Marines has a place in a BA army. A flamer and 8 rapid firing bolters do wonders against squishy, high initiative targets.

I've been playing against DE for a while and I wouldn't want to charge Assault Marines into a squad of DE Witches.

But to rapid fire they go down as a prom queen on the first date.

Assault Squads can take Flamers too. In fact, if we're comparing 10 man squads, they can take two. They also have Bolt Pistols, and while the 8 extra Bolter shots are nice, this is the best case scenario. If the Wyches are in cover it's only about 2 more dead.

In fact, just for fun, let's compare 8 Bolters with 8 Bolt Pistols plus a charge vs. 10 Wyches:

8 Bolters = 16 shots = about 11 hits = about 7 wounds, for 7 dead Wyches out of cover, 3.5 dead in cover. Out of cover, with the Flamer, the Wyches are probably all dead. In cover, there are probably 3-4 left alive if they aren't bunched up for the Flamer.

8 bolt Pistols = 3.5 dead out of cover, 1.75 in cover. With the Flamer, that's about 7 dead out of cover, 5 dead in cover. The Assault Squad then charges. Wyches get 6 attacks out of cover, 10 in cover. That's either 3 or 5 hits, for 1 or 2 wounds, which aren't likely to get through FNP and 3+ armor. If there's a Hekatrix with an Agonizer, there will be 1-2 dead in the BA squad. Note that there's a decent chance that at least 10 wounds were done to the squad via shooting, so a decent chance the Hekatrix is already dead.

10 Assault Marines get 30 attacks on the charge if they have 1 special weapon. I assume they have Furious Charge, hence S5. That's 15 hits, about 12-13 wounds. Even with their 4++, all the Wyches are dead. Even if 2 Marines died from an Agonizer, 24 attacks is enough to get about 10 wounds, so the Wyches are still dead.

So, it looks like the Assault Marines can wipe out a squad of Wyches about as well as a Tactical Squad. I admit, this is dependant on them being able to charge, so there is a distance range in which the Tacs are clearly superior. I also ignored the various Wych weapons that are available. However, this is the absolute best matchup for the Tac Squad. I can't think of any better target for a Bolter than a Wych (well, besides Hekatrix Bloodbrides, but same thing, really). And yet, the Tac Squad can be matched by the Assault Squad much of the time.

To top all this off, note that the most common configuartions for a Tactical Squad cost more than Assault Squads. You do plan to run a Tactical Squad in a Rhino, right? A Tac Squad with a Rhino, Meltagun and Missile Launcher is, I believe, 225 points. A 10 man Assault Squad with 2 Meltaguns is only 210. A 5 man Assault Squad in a Las/Plas Razorback with 1 Meltagun is 165. Either way, the Assault Squad is more generally capable than the Tac Squad, and costs either about the same or a lot less.

There is a reason why most people on Dakka think Tactical Marines don't belong in a Blood Angels list.

You're giving the assault marines a point advantage over the tac marines :p

The reason assault marines are better than tac marines is because 5 guys in a razorback with a las/plas are better than 10 guy on foot with las/plas for similar points.

make them assault marines.