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Hi all,
I am a long time Space Marines (ex Ork from WH 4.0 rules), now just started into using the Imperial Guard. Had first game last night, went well, tied for objectives with a Tyranid player.

Had a few questions about rules/troop types:

1. When Heavy Weapon Squads are attached to a Platoon, do they have to keep coherency to the infantry squads with the platoon, or are they considered a separate unit? For example, if I had to hold an objective, could I leave my 3 heavies there, and move my 2 infantry squads to take another objective?

2. Commands: If I wanted to relay a command from the Company Commander to my Infantry squad, and was 18 inches away, but had my Platoon commander between (lets say the Platoon commander is 12 inches away in a Chimera to the Platoon Commander, who in turn is 6 inches away from the Infantry squad), can I relay the command from the CC to the PC, even though it is 18 inches? (looking to see that it would be relayed through the chain of command).

3. Penal squads: Shown as a troop choice, but I didn't think there were actual models for this choice. Any thoughts about if there are models, and if not, how to scratch build some?

4. Platoon command squad and medical pack: In order to get the Feel no Pain rule, does the Platoon command squad with a Medical pack have to be attached to the infantry squads under its command?

5. Is the Commander in the Command squad ever considered an indpendant character? Reason being, when I was assaulted by one of the monsterous Tyranids, I told my opponent that my CC was not an independant character, so would not be targeted as such. Would appreciate any clarification.

6. Commisar: If the Commisar is considered an auxilliary command choice, why can't he issue commands (such as Rank 1 fire, Rank 2 fire)? Outside reference would be to the Caiphus Cain novels, where I get the impression that he can issue commands to the squad, not just helping with leadership.

7. If I have both a Commisar and Platoon Commander, can I use the higher of the 2 leaderships to determine a leadership test?

8. The normal IG troop has a Lasgun (rapid fire weapon), and also a CC. Per the rules, you can't assault with a rapid fire weapon if you've fired before the assault. So, if I take a squad, fire into the opponent, then assault, do I still get the 1 attack with the CC (as I fired with the rifle), or 2 attacks for the charge into assault? I would appreciate the clarification.

9. Is there any thought to expanding the Command structure to include heavy weapons and/or vehicles? Seems like you could use a few of them (such as the one that allows to negate cover saves).

Thanks for any answers, as I am trying to make sure I get the rules down right. May come up with a few more questions later.

Ajax

DakkaDakka wrote:

1) THey are a seperate unit

2) No. The range is 12", nothing more.

3) Yep, troops choice. I think there may be some direct only. Otherwise you can designate them as penal through painting - from memory white stripe across the helmet is the "fluff" way of showing this

4) No. PCS are a separate unit, and as they lack the IC rule CANNOT join other units.

The platoon is one CHOICE made up of many UNITs. Each unit is discrete.

5) No. NEVER an IC. YOu have a choice of two - lord commisar, primaris psyker, and one or two special characters from memory

6) SImple answer: Because. Technically commisars lay outside of the chain of command ENTIRELY, is the fluff reason

7) Yes. You always use the highest ld available to a squad for any leadership test

8) You answered your own question: firing a Rapid Fire weapon DISALLOWS assault, unless you are Relentless (you are not )

If you do not fire, you can assault. You have 1 attack basic, and +1 for assaulting - note you need *2* CCW to gain an additional attack on top

9) No. You can only select infantry. BALANCE is the main reason.

Ajax wrote:1. When Heavy Weapon Squads are attached to a Platoon, do they have to keep coherency to the infantry squads with the platoon, or are they considered a separate unit? For example, if I had to hold an objective, could I leave my 3 heavies there, and move my 2 infantry squads to take another objective?

Each squad is a separate unit. There is no obligation to keep any of them within any given distance of the others.

2. Commands: If I wanted to relay a command from the Company Commander to my Infantry squad, and was 18 inches away, but had my Platoon commander between (lets say the Platoon commander is 12 inches away in a Chimera to the Platoon Commander, who in turn is 6 inches away from the Infantry squad), can I relay the command from the CC to the PC, even though it is 18 inches? (looking to see that it would be relayed through the chain of command).

There is no option to do this, no. Orders are issued directly to the unit.

3. Penal squads: Shown as a troop choice, but I didn't think there were actual models for this choice. Any thoughts about if there are models, and if not, how to scratch build some?

There is an old box of Colonel Schaefer's Last Chancers that can still sometimes be found on eBay or on dusty back shelves. They don't fit well with the current Penal Squad rules, though, due to having a mix of different weaponry.

Otherwise, regular Guardsmen painted a different colour, or with some sort of penal legion tattoo or shoulder marking work just fine.

4. Platoon command squad and medical pack: In order to get the Feel no Pain rule, does the Platoon command squad with a Medical pack have to be attached to the infantry squads under its command?

You can't attach squads to other squads. The medipack works for the squad it is in only.

5. Is the Commander in the Command squad ever considered an indpendant character? Reason being, when I was assaulted by one of the monsterous Tyranids, I told my opponent that my CC was not an independant character, so would not be targeted as such. Would appreciate any clarification.

They don't have the Independant Character rule, so no.

6. Commisar: If the Commisar is considered an auxilliary command choice, why can't he issue commands (such as Rank 1 fire, Rank 2 fire)? Outside reference would be to the Caiphus Cain novels, where I get the impression that he can issue commands to the squad, not just helping with leadership.

Commissars have a different role in the army list. Ruleswise, they can't issue orders simply because they don't have the rule that would allow them to do so.

7. If I have both a Commisar and Platoon Commander, can I use the higher of the 2 leaderships to determine a leadership test?

You can always use the highest Ld in the unit, yes.

8. The normal IG troop has a Lasgun (rapid fire weapon), and also a CC. Per the rules, you can't assault with a rapid fire weapon if you've fired before the assault. So, if I take a squad, fire into the opponent, then assault, do I still get the 1 attack with the CC (as I fired with the rifle), or 2 attacks for the charge into assault? I would appreciate the clarification.

You can't assault at all after firing a rapid fire weapon. That's not just referring to making attacks. You can't charge into combat.

9. Is there any thought to expanding the Command structure to include heavy weapons and/or vehicles? Seems like you could use a few of them (such as the one that allows to negate cover saves).

Not sure what you mean here.

1) HWS are always completely separate units, as are all elements of a Platoon(only platoon infantry squads within the same platoon can combine via the Combined squads rule; this is commonly knoown as "blobbing" or "Blobs")

2)No, the unit receiving the order must be within the specified distance of the officer giving the order(12" of the Co. Commander model itself, not any model in the Co Command Squad).

3)Models for the penal legionaires are just regular guardsman models appropriately equipped(9 guys with lasguns, 1 with laspistol+CCW): to differentiate them you could do Orange fatigues or armor, or paint them all with black+White stripes, whatever else you want to do.

4)Platoon command squads cannot combine with Platoon infantry squads: there is currently no way to get FNP on your Infantry(only the command squads can benefit, and Harker has it for himself)

5)Only ICs in the guard codex are Lord Commissars, Yarrick, Primaris Psykers, Preists, and techpreists: none of the oficers are ICs.

6)Commissars do not have the Officer rules; therefore ccannot issue orders; the Lord commissar does have some command-like benefits though, and regular commissars are just "Morale Officers".

7)Yes, per the Main rules(BRB page 8)

8) if you fire the lasguns, you cannot assault at all. If you do not fire them, then you will get the +1 assault bonus, but no 2 CCW bonus, as you do not have 2 CCWs(much like with your marines and their Boltgun+Bolt-pitstol, they could fire the pistols and assault as the pistol is not RF but would still not get the 2CCW bonus as they don't have 2).

9)I don't understand the question here: the CCS is just the squad. You can take Hell-hounds etc in their FOC slots.

Damn, that's a lot of Ninjas!

Ajax wrote:1. When Heavy Weapon Squads are attached to a Platoon, do they have to keep coherency to the infantry squads with the platoon, or are they considered a separate unit? For example, if I had to hold an objective, could I leave my 3 heavies there, and move my 2 infantry squads to take another objective?

Every unit in a platoon is a seperate unit. Infantry squads have a special rule that allows them to combine within a platoon. So 2 units of 10 becomes 1 unit of 20. Platoon command, special weapon and heavy weapon squads cannot be combined and are always seperate units.

Ajax wrote:2. Commands: If I wanted to relay a command from the Company Commander to my Infantry squad, and was 18 inches away, but had my Platoon commander between (lets say the Platoon commander is 12 inches away in a Chimera to the Platoon Commander, who in turn is 6 inches away from the Infantry squad), can I relay the command from the CC to the PC, even though it is 18 inches? (looking to see that it would be relayed through the chain of command).

No

Ajax wrote:3. Penal squads: Shown as a troop choice, but I didn't think there were actual models for this choice. Any thoughts about if there are models, and if not, how to scratch build some?

Some people suggest using Cathacans and model/paint them like prisoners.

Ajax wrote:4. Platoon command squad and medical pack: In order to get the Feel no Pain rule, does the Platoon command squad with a Medical pack have to be attached to the infantry squads under its command?

You cannot attach platoon command squads to infantry squads. The medipack only gives Feel no pain to its own unit.

Ajax wrote:5. Is the Commander in the Command squad ever considered an indpendant character? Reason being, when I was assaulted by one of the monsterous Tyranids, I told my opponent that my CC was not an independant character, so would not be targeted as such. Would appreciate any clarification.

No he is not an independent character.

Ajax wrote:6. Commisar: If the Commisar is considered an auxilliary command choice, why can't he issue commands (such as Rank 1 fire, Rank 2 fire)? Outside reference would be to the Caiphus Cain novels, where I get the impression that he can issue commands to the squad, not just helping with leadership.

The rules do not allow commissars to give orders.

Ajax wrote:7. If I have both a Commisar and Platoon Commander, can I use the higher of the 2 leaderships to determine a leadership test?

A unit always uses the highest LD value in that unit. So if the commissar is attached to the unit then yes you have to use his Leadership.

Ajax wrote:8. The normal IG troop has a Lasgun (rapid fire weapon), and also a CC. Per the rules, you can't assault with a rapid fire weapon if you've fired before the assault. So, if I take a squad, fire into the opponent, then assault, do I still get the 1 attack with the CC (as I fired with the rifle), or 2 attacks for the charge into assault? I would appreciate the clarification.

When you fire rapid fire weapons then you can't assault at all. This means you cannot move at all in the assault phase.

Ajax wrote:9. Is there any thought to expanding the Command structure to include heavy weapons and/or vehicles? Seems like you could use a few of them (such as the one that allows to negate cover saves).

Unsure what you mean with this one, but heavy weapon squads can take orders. Vehicles can't.

Edit: heh, 4 other people beat me too it.

DakkaDakka wrote:

My thanks to everyone who replied, the advice/answers help a lot!


One more question: Does anyone know if there is a Games Workshop version or kit for the Imperial Guard Griffon Mortar tank? Can't seem to find it except on Forge World.

Thanks again!

Ajax

At present, no, there is no GW Griffon. There was, but it was a plastic/metal hybrid kit, and is currently out of production. You might strike it lucky on eBay.

There is a Forgeworld Griffon, though: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Imperial_Guard_Tanks/IMPERIAL-GRIFFON-HEAVY-MORTAR-CARRIER.html

I have found a couple IG things I want out of production, mainly yarrick but a couple others. I remedy this problem by kitbashing the hell outta them and saying they count as my missing model.

For a griffon, you should be able to buy a basalisk, mount it lower in the carriage, cut the barrel and call it a griffon. Over simplified but cheaper than forgeworld.

--cgmckenzie

That was hilarious, 5 identical answers within 12 minutes!
very good answers though.
For the Griffon, kitbash it with a Chimers and a Demolisher cannon (if you have one lying around), if not, then the Basilisk idea seems to be the best way to go