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Alright, so yesterday I had a chance to play some DoW II Retribution and LoL'd my way to victory in a skirmish game with wraithguard. That said, I wanted to pull my wraithguard out for some good old fashioned wraithwall fun times!

This is intended to be a 2K army, and well... it didn't turn out so well. Help me slim it down.

****HQ - 365****
Eldrad
Avatar of Khaine

****Troops - 646****
10x wraithguard + warlock
- Spirit seer
- Embolden (To help Eldrad)

10x Guardians w/ Warlock
- Destructor
- Scatter Laser

10x Guardians w/ Warlock
- Destructor
- Scatter Laser

****Elites - 560****
7x Harlequins
- Troupe Master
-- Power weapon
- Shadow Seer
- - Harlequin's Kiss
- 5x Harlequin's Kiss

5x Fire Dragons
- Dedicated Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuri Cannon

5x Fire Dragons
- Dedicated Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuri Cannon

****Heavy Support - 425****
Wraith Lord
- 2x Flamers
- EML
- bright Lance

Wraith Lord
- 2x Flamers
- EML
- Bright Lance

Night Spinner

****Total = 1996****



What are the thoughts of you fellow Dakka members?

If you field an Avatar, I'd take let some troop units (Guardian Defenders or Avengers) walk in the Avatar's fealess bubble. In this way, you could drop both Serpents from the Avengers.

wuestenfux wrote:If you field an Avatar, I'd take let some troop units (Guardian Defenders or Avengers) walk in the Avatar's fealess bubble. In this way, you could drop both Serpents from the Avengers.

Instead of Avengers I would take 10 Storm Guardians (with 2 flamers) with Warlocks upgraded to Spiritseers (and Distructor?) to give added support to the Wraithguard /and/ the Wraithlords to give you a bigger control bubble for 133pts. I would even suggest taking 2 squads to give you a 24" Triangle of control. I would then take one more 10 man Guardian squad with a Scatter Laser (95pts) and a Warlock with Embolden (30pts, total 125pts) as an objective sitter. This would give you a total savings of 143pts if you drop the DA squads + transport, meaning you would only have to drop another 133pts. If you drop one Fire Dragon unit (180pts), you will have 46pts surplus.

I know it is not sexy, but it helps your army and trims the fat.

BlkTom wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:If you field an Avatar, I'd take let some troop units (Guardian Defenders or Avengers) walk in the Avatar's fealess bubble. In this way, you could drop both Serpents from the Avengers.

Instead of Avengers I would take 10 Storm Guardians (with 2 flamers) with Warlocks upgraded to Spiritseers (and Distructor?) to give added support to the Wraithguard /and/ the Wraithlords to give you a bigger control bubble for 133pts. I would even suggest taking 2 squads to give you a 24" Triangle of control. I would then take one more 10 man Guardian squad with a Scatter Laser (95pts) and a Warlock with Embolden (30pts, total 125pts) as an objective sitter. This would give you a total savings of 143pts if you drop the DA squads + transport, meaning you would only have to drop another 133pts. If you drop one Fire Dragon unit (180pts), you will have 46pts surplus.

I know it is not sexy, but it helps your army and trims the fat.

That's a lot to be putting near the Avatar since Eldrad should never be more than 6" away from him. I've never run a true footdar list, so at a glance, I'm having trouble seeing how I would have everything inside of his bubble and still be presenting him at the head of the army. I'll try playing around with set ups a bit though and see if I can't get it figured out. If i can, this may end up being what I have to do.

I have all week to figure out what to do with this list, so lets nit pick this thing until it's done and play tested. Any other suggestions to consider?

Everything inside the bubble? No, just one model of a unit at 6''.

Again, I haven't played a full footdar list and am used to much more flexibility then footslogging guardians allows, so it will probably be a bit awkward for me.

I'll just have to pretend I'm playing necrons o_O

Flimsy necrons... >_>


Anyways, on a serious note, what if I just dropped the two firedragon squads and left everything else as is? That's 360 points, and the wraithguards (When they get there) can deal with anything with their guns. It would also give me a few points to throw around, though what I'd get is beyond me. Maybe another troop choice? Though as I mentioned in the original post, I am hesitant to ditch the dragons, as they are my best answer for incoming dangerous transports.

Amanax wrote:Anyways, on a serious note, what if I just dropped the two firedragon squads and left everything else as is? That's 360 points, and the wraithguards (When they get there) can deal with anything with their guns. It would also give me a few points to throw around, though what I'd get is beyond me. Maybe another troop choice? Though as I mentioned in the original post, I am hesitant to ditch the dragons, as they are my best answer for incoming dangerous transports.

I think the dragons can only be lost if you have sufficient anti-tank firepower elswhere. Wraithguns are good, but incredibly short ranged and they don't have the melta rule to help them out. Admittedly, your WLs' missile launchers could also hit armour from afar. If you drop the two fire dragon units, do you think you have enough points for a second full squad of wraithguard? Or maybe a five man squad with seer in serpent? These could act as a more mobile wraithguards unit designed to hit the enemy's weak spot. Then again, if that is their role, might as well keep dragons.

Personally, I would swap the dragons out.

Well, wriathguns don't need the melta rule. Against vehicles they ignore armor and just goes into a d6 roll to see if it glances, pens, or nothing. But yes, they do have horrible range.
A second squad of wraithguard would cost me near 400 points. I already need to drop 276. Points wise it would be even more difficult. Not to mention I only have 10 wraithguard. So probably a no go on that one =/

It looks like an acceptable "hybrid list"

Really to me, it looks like you have different Eldar armies taped togeather,

Eldrad + Avatar + Harlies + Guard + Lords

Mech Avengers and Dragons

and we need to shave 276 points!?

hmmmm

I'd agree that you'd be better off going all foot or all mech. Dragons can stay just because they are so awesome at doing what they do.

So if anything I'd drop the Avenger's Wave Serpents and consider swapping them out for Guardian Defenders. That should save you enough points. I'd consider running lances on your Lords as a matter of fact anyway, Lords are a great place to put those, and having more anti heavy tank fire is always good in this type of list.

IF you are worried about the loss of s6 fire, just replace the spinner with 3 war walkers. Walkers should give you the extra s6 you need.

This seems half footdar and half mechdar. In the games I've played Eldar are much better if you go one way or the other. If you go footdar, lose the wave serpents, this way your entire army is able to benefit from the Avatar's fearless bubble (so long as he's nearby), and the Avatar won't get left behind.

If you decide to go Mechdar, lose the avatar, he will just end up being left behind.

Just changed some things around, however... I still need to shave off 62 points <_>

Any other suggestions?

how about dropping 3 harleqins? only that and weapon swap on Lords that I can find (unless you loose a troop).

RedNiWeR wrote:how about dropping 3 harleqins? only that and weapon swap on Lords that I can find (unless you loose a troop).

That's what I'm thinking too. Drop the harlequin squad down to 7. Should make for an effective counter charge unit still.

The key is this... psykers make the Wraithguard and Wraithlords go (well, not make you check for wraithsight every turn). The Shaodwseer counts as a Psyker, Eldrad, and the Warlocks. Spiritseer gives you a 12" bubble and only the Warlocks get it (as a +6pt upgrade). Otherwise those units have to be within 6" of a psyker. This means you want to not let your core of your army be crippled by losing your Psykers or losing the Psykers in range of those units.

I don't want to have to re-add up the points of every unit, so since you don't have it listed I am going to assume you did not get the Spiritseer upgrade for those other 2 Warlocks. If what I said above does not get through the importance of this aspect, I don't know what will.

Please keep this in mind!

Well... given that the entire list has a model within the fear bubble of the avatar... I'm not too concerned. There will always be a psyker within 6" at least. Unless they are all dead, in which case I've lost anyways.