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In close combat there are many way where a unit might be forced to take a leadership test.

Here is the two rules that happened in a funny situation yesterday:
1- If a unit loses the assault it must take a leadership test to see if they fall back or stay in the fight (if not fearless)
2- If a unit loses 25% or more of their model, they must take a leadership test.

So I had a unit of 10 nob with different configuration (there was a BP in that, no painboy, don't ahve the model) and a warboss(w/ BP too) against a unit of 10 assault space marine. The nobs had just destroyed a drop pod and a dreadnought, and then got assaulted on my BA opponent's turn by the 10 man assault squad.

The result of the CC:
Nob, 1 model down, total of 12 wounds taken (already had some wounds from the explosion of the drop pod and dreadnought)
Assault space marines, 7 models down, 7 wounds taken.

So I lost combat, and I wasn't fearless since I was down to 10 models in the Nob Mob and took the leader ship test where I had to roll a 4 or less (LD9 minus loos combat by 5 wounds) to pass and failed both badly. So I ran away and the assault space marines did not catch up . Now the assault space marine, despite winning combat, had lost 70% of their unit and had to take a LD test too, they passed, luckily for my opponent.

Now, what would happen if the marines failed their leadership?, would both units run away (kinda silly and made me smirk at the thought when I saw my friend roll for his leadership) or did we make a mistake on the Combat resolution?

Isn't the 25% rule just for shooting?

I am fairly certain that the test for 25% casualties only applies during the shooting phase.

wow, I was sure it was in any situation, lol, I am not used to applying that rule since most of my units are usually fearless for a long enough time to get in CC and when an ork mob gets under 11, they are usually daed anyway

Portugal Jones wrote:I am fairly certain that the test for 25% casualties only applies during the shooting phase.

No. It applies in all phases of the game, including phases in the opponent's turn. See P44.
"A unit losing 25% of more of its models during a single phase must pass a morale check at the end of that phase"

However, it goes on to say that this does not include casualties inflicted by close combat attacks.

So, for example, if a unit of 3 models assaulted across dangerous terrain and one model died then the unit would need to take a morale test at the end of the assault phase - even if that unit won combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Serder wrote:wow, I was sure it was in any situation

It is.

It does apply to every phase with one exception:

Page 44.

"A unit that is locked in close combat does not have to take Morale checks for taking 25% casualties."



EDIT: Ninja'd

Scott-S6 wrote:


However, it goes on to say that this does not include casualties inflicted by close combat attacks.

is it written?? Because if we go by logic, I would agree with you, but if it is not specified in the rules, it might lead to confusion during a game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
damn you ninkas, thx for the replies guys, it is so easy to forget some of the little details in 100 pages of rules. Me and my friend were finding the situation kinda ankward, lol.

EDIT: quoted the wrong part lol

See the quote I posted.
"A unit losing 25% of more of its models during a single phase must pass a morale check at the end of that phase" P44

wow, my bad scott, I meant the CC casualties part, lol that was very very very bad on my part, again thanks guys

Nungunz wrote:It does apply to every phase with one exception:

It applies to every phase, including the assault phase. It's just wounds inflicted in CC that don't count. (still possible to trigger it in the assault phase, as per my example)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Serder wrote:wow, my bad scott, I meant the CC casualties part, lol that was very very very bad on my part, again thanks guys

"A unit losing 25% of more of its models during a single phase must pass a morale check at the end of that phase" [blah] "Do not count casualties caused by close combat attacks" P44 point A

So wait. If I had a 4 man squad and failed one roll on my dangerous terrain test, I need to check morale?

Yes, same as usual.

Yup, same for deff rollas, wrecking balls or any other ways to inflict wounds outside of CC and shooting.

I can just imagine.

A squad of 4 Space Marines strides through a nearly collapsed ruin.

"Brother-Sergeant, one of our Brothers has tripped and impaled himself on that twisted wreckage jutting out over there"
*points to dead Space Marine body*

"Dear Emperor, EVERYBODY FALL BACK"

L_Dawg wrote:So wait. If I had a 4 man squad and failed one roll on my dangerous terrain test, I need to check morale?

That daisy just ate Brother Doogle ... RUN AWAY!!!

I'd rather ask myself why every sixth of the emperor's super-soldiers trips and impales himself in that ruin. As it causes more casualties than an ork, falling back is more than wise.

truck rams a landraider

truck takes a str 5 hit in return, roll a 6 pen....boom

unit of 15 flashgits takes 8 saves fails 6, end of movement phase take ld est and fails so has to run.

shooting phase they have kustom mega blasters, 4 over heat, 1 save 3 dont, need to test, as already running auto fail. run again

as now below 50% starting value cant regroup so unit removed.

the SM didn't even fire a shot.........stupid orks

Caledor wrote:truck rams a landraider

truck takes a str 5 hit in return, roll a 6 pen....boom

unit of 15 flashgits takes 8 saves fails 6, end of movement phase take ld est and fails so has to run.

shooting phase they have kustom mega blasters, 4 over heat, 1 save 3 dont, need to test, as already running auto fail. run again

as now below 50% starting value cant regroup so unit removed.

the SM didn't even fire a shot.........stupid orks

Many things wrong here:

1)Flash gitz have 2W; so would not be running at all, as they would not have lost enough models in the movement Phase, and would not lose any in the Shooting(unless at least 2 of the overheats were on the same model); at any rate, as they are already falling back, even if something happend in the shooting phase to kill an extra 25%, they are already falling back so do not need to take any normal morale tests.

2)Flash gitz do not have Kustom Mega Blasters; they have Snazzguns, clearly with the "Blastier" upgrade.

3)Most importantly: The Flash Gitz would not be removed because they cannot regroup; they would continue running off table.

You can only have 12 in a trukk anyway...

didn't know they had 2 wounds will need to read my ork codex again.

if required to take a morale test and unit already falling back are they not treated as auto fail and so suffer another fall back move?.

the remove of table is just a timing issue as the friendly games i play no point keeping them and just running them all the time.

Thanks Nos; I totally glossed over that one somehow.

Caledor: page 46 says they automatically Fail, yes(excepting when getting assaulted, but then that is a Morale-test or die); so also yes, they would make a further fall back move.

There is also a point to keeping most fleeing units on the table: they can still shoot, be assaulted out of Fall Back!, or in some cases fall back into a Fearless bubble/earn some sort of "damn the rules" rule(IG order "Get Back in the Fight")


Scott-6: there are only 2 ways that the unit would take the 25% casualties morale test in the assault phase:

1) Lose 25% or more while assaulting through DangerousT, and no longer being locked in combat at the end of the combat(Last bit, separated, is locked units also do not test for 25%)

2) Lose 25% or more while making a jet-pack/Eldar Jet-bike assault phase move.

nosferatu1001 wrote:You can only have 12 in a trukk anyway...

In addition to 10 being the maximum unit size


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kommissar Kel wrote:Scott-6: there are only 2 ways that the unit would take the 25% casualties morale test in the assault phase:

1) Lose 25% or more while assaulting through DangerousT, and no longer being locked in combat at the end of the combat(Last bit, separated, is locked units also do not test for 25%)

2) Lose 25% or more while making a jet-pack/Eldar Jet-bike assault phase move.

3) Lose 25% from getting hit by wrecking balls.

Jidmah wrote:3) Lose 25% from getting hit by wrecking balls.

Or tau Flechette Launchers, or DE Envenomed blades(whatever the vehicle defense upgrade is), or Psykers/daemons hitting truesilver-armored GK non-walker Vehicles. Basically any defensive vehicle upgrade that harms the attacker.

Also Vehicle Explosions in the assault phase